29 replies to this topic

[flyers&divers]

Quoting Greenie: "Secondly, I do not understand what efficiency is created by chasing movement of every minute." When I am scalping crude oil and even ER2 very often I am the solitary bidder or offerer in the "entire universe" at that price (everyone is bidding lower or offering higher) thereby I am reducing price fluctuations and facilitate real business. If you were a fleet owner wishing to buy you would welcome my offer that is a tick or more lower then the other folk and if you were a seller like a refinery you should welcome my bid which is higher then anyone's at the moment. In addition, in my trading life I have paid gazillions in taxes which among other things allows my government to support legions who are less "mercantile" then I am. Regards, F&D

[Rogerdodger]

I wonder how much time was wasted thinking up that criticism and so many other criticisms of successful individuals.

Well said.

I'll put on my Freud hat and say those who feel guilt over their own life must find someone else to criticize.
Look at all the Hollywood "neuvo riche" who feel guilt over their life of ease, glamor and immoral entertainments and thus become outspoken judges of others' lives.

Edited by Rogerdodger, 29 July 2007 - 04:25 PM.

[Jnavin]

Short-term traders provide liquidity to the market. This is one of the most "productive" aspects they provide. So-called "investors" would be unable to buy and sell so easily were it not for short-term and very short-term traders. Buying and selling stocks would be like trying to drive Mac trucks through tiny alleyways. Bashing traders who get in and get out quickly is counter-productive for those who ostensibly take a "longer view." You want consistent, good liquidity? You should be thanking short-term traders every minute the market is open.

[OEXCHAOS]

Those individuals quoted by Mark have never been in great need imho.
The last thing my fellow citizens would think about is their productivity to the society. You must have way too much time and/or money on your hands to even take this into consideration.
Please, no offense intended, it's just what I feel reading this.

A little dose of reality.

Thank you.

I hope that your fellow citizens soon have the luxury of figuring out where to deploy their productive capacity for it's greatest benefit to society, even if they don't choose to.

Mark

[securelstmile]

Roger, You bring fun to this board and important pieces of the never ending puzzle that is the market. That is productive, you are not an emotional drain on society which is probably one of the nicest things you can say about someone. Just have fun and help out when you can, you are the embodiement of that philosophy.

[Rogerdodger]

Roger,

You bring fun to this board and important pieces of the never ending puzzle that is the market.

That is productive, you are not an emotional drain on society which is probably one of the nicest things you can say about someone.

Just have fun and help out when you can, you are the embodiement of that philosophy.

YES! TRUE! LOL!

And I recycle!

[arbman]

It's not like anyone can trade successfully, trading is the oldest job in the planet... after you know... Anyway, money is probably the oldest invention of the social structure. It makes the goods valued and exchanged relatively easily. So, there have always been intermediaries who would go under substantial risk at every level, from the wholesale to the retail markets, and Greenie's comment is basically categorizing all these people as the parasites of the society. Well, the majority of the society is pretty much parasites then, except for the few who work at the factories, streets and science labs, from your banker, mortgage broker, real estate agent to cashier at the supermarket, they are all cashing in the spread in between the buyers and sellers, pretty much. I think this is a very useless discussion in terms of productivity and this is a different discussion for some us. The reason why many engineers or people from other fields are looking into the trading more and more is for the additional income they need that they can not extract no matter how hard they work to invent anything in their day jobs, BECAUSE of inflation that robs them daily. The monetary control is ultimately given and sealed to the Fed and a few private bankers anyway... Trading is not necessarily a zero sum game, btw, at least not in every time frame. However, you have to watch your positions and trades to extract the increasing wealth in every time frame. Some of us feel they must adjust in real-time with the changing market prices, some of us don't. It is a matter of knowledge, NOT comfort, to be able to sit on the same position for relatively longer time frames from one trader to another... If somebody can tell me where the prices will be in 3 months, I would take my position accordingly and go on to do something else, I just can't at the moment though... - kisa

[Rogerdodger]

There are extremists, even today who believe any form of entertainment or fun is wrong. Shouldn't humans spend all of their time on "the serious"? What should the limits be? Who will be the judge? Who will watch the watchers? I choose freedom, but the clouds of fascism are always on the horizon. Fascism: "A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control"

Edited by Rogerdodger, 29 July 2007 - 05:00 PM.

[OEXCHAOS]

I will! Thank you, Roger, btw, for benefiting our corner of society. Mark

[beta]

Great thread and thought-provoking responses !

Ive had this same "Random Walk" debate in other contexts with many who simply do not understand how trading works, or that TA even "works." Some are investors with a larger horizon; others are simply too lazy to spend the time to understand what they dont know.

I dont trade for a living, but spend every free waking moment studying charts, learning TA, reflecting on trading mistakes, improve techniques, etc. (several hours a day). And mostly, I try to learn from more experienced traders (they dont teach you this stuff in college).

Trading, at its best, is a both a science and art form. I love to trade and watch the movement of the markets because the mathematical patterns that are revealed in the process of watching chart patterns unfold truly inspire me believe to in a higher order to the universe. Look at the Fibonaccis and how they play out in nature -- is that cool or what !!

When I watch TA cycle guys like Airedale, Jim Curry, etc forecast their cycle turns and nail them, it leaves me in total awe of how there is hidden order in seeming chaos !

Some people have the same "mystical experience" with music, art or religion. For me, its trading. I feel very fortunate to have discovered the Zen-like pathway of trading some years ago, and benefited from the generosity of brilliant traders who post here and elsewhere. If others dont understand the power and ROI of trading, that's their loss (and more profits for me).

Edited by beta, 29 July 2007 - 05:52 PM.