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Futures up on Geithner plan


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#11 *JB*

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 01:11 AM

Plan to be announced before the bell. Story.


From the link supplied -- "This plan relies much less on private investors and much more on direct government purchases of banks' troubled assets.

But the NYT reports --

"Obama administration officials worked Sunday to persuade reluctant private investors to buy as much as $1 trillion in troubled mortgages and related assets from banks, with government help."

http://www.nytimes.c...s..._r=1&ref=us

ALSO, they STILL have NOT come up with a way to determine market value.

More smoke and mirrors??
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#12 dcengr

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 02:09 AM

More smoke and mirrors??


Desperate people do desperate things.

Is it as clear to the public as it is to me? That they think they can make us jump like a dog by holding a treat above our heads?

I believe, for once, the public will see right through this. That after many months of disappointments and incompetence, its clear that those running the show are on stage naked.

Its time to be angry and yell "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more".
Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?

#13 arbman

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 02:31 AM

Its time to be angry and yell "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more".


If you want to fix this mess, you have to destroy the globalization before it destroys you!!!

The globalization pressures many high income tech and low income manufacturing wages down to 1:10th of what they used to be. The corporations have been trying to capitalize on this labor pricing power against the citizens of US and pressuring the Congress to allow them to do this kind of worker devaluation in United States for too long.

The municipalities and the Federal tax revenues will be forced to decline in a country that used to be extremely industrialized, maintaining very high standards and making the future projections and plans inline with what it used to be.

India and China do not even have the proper sewage systems in most of their cities, they don't care about the pollution, or the "animal rights". There is no value for the human life in these countries, anyone can be substituted. Now the politicians accepted to let the American companies use the slave workers in these countries abroad and lay off the American workers here and now everyone is upset because the American economy is weakening...

The last manufacturing sector in United States, housing and construction, ended with a massive bubble and there is a large population of engineers and workers unable to sustain their way of life, or they are plain jobless. The party in Wall Street on the phony economy ended with a massive implosion in the derivatives as well.

In the mean time, the whole world is still expecting the US to consume the overproduction of the world and US gov't is trying to reflate the paper economy back up, what a brainless setup...

#14 iloli way

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:06 AM

Plan to be announced before the bell. Story.


From the link supplied -- "This plan relies much less on private investors and much more on direct government purchases of banks' troubled assets.

But the NYT reports --

"Obama administration officials worked Sunday to persuade reluctant private investors to buy as much as $1 trillion in troubled mortgages and related assets from banks, with government help."

http://www.nytimes.c...s..._r=1&ref=us

ALSO, they STILL have NOT come up with a way to determine market value.

More smoke and mirrors??


"...the government lends money to private investors, who then use the money to buy the stuff...to use "the expertise of the market" to set the value of toxic assets." --Paul Krugman
PRICE IS KING; LINE RULES! - Laws Of Line (LOL) Trading Systems
Swing Those Lines: I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people! -- Issac Newton

#15 arbman

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:09 AM

"...the government lends money to private investors, who then use the money to buy the stuff...to use "the expertise of the market" to set the value of toxic assets." --Paul Krugman


So, before the gov't money, these "experts" said they were worth nothing, now the experts will tell us they are worth something, it seems like infinite gains are possible, if you can front run these trades...

#16 NAV

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:16 AM

Its time to be angry and yell "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more".


If you want to fix this mess, you have to destroy the globalization before it destroys you!!!

The globalization pressures many high income tech and low income manufacturing wages down to 1:10th of what they used to be. The corporations have been trying to capitalize on this labor pricing power against the citizens of US and pressuring the Congress to allow them to do this kind of worker devaluation in United States for too long.

The municipalities and the Federal tax revenues will be forced to decline in a country that used to be extremely industrialized, maintaining very high standards and making the future projections and plans inline with what it used to be.

India and China do not even have the proper sewage systems in most of their cities, they don't care about the pollution, or the "animal rights". There is no value for the human life in these countries, anyone can be substituted. Now the politicians accepted to let the American companies use the slave workers in these countries abroad and lay off the American workers here and now everyone is upset because the American economy is weakening...

The last manufacturing sector in United States, housing and construction, ended with a massive bubble and there is a large population of engineers and workers unable to sustain their way of life, or they are plain jobless. The party in Wall Street on the phony economy ended with a massive implosion in the derivatives as well.

In the mean time, the whole world is still expecting the US to consume the overproduction of the world and US gov't is trying to reflate the paper economy back up, what a brainless setup...


You gotta kill globalization, if you have to restore jobs and wage growth in the U.S ?. But that ain't gonna happen. That's far too simplistic thinking (you are thinking like Obama). Then the world is going to boycott the coke, the ipods, the iphone, the laptops, the desktops and buy the cheap chinese substitutes......the world is gonna show middle finger to the U.S treasuries. There is no easy solution to all this mess Arbman. The cycle needs to reach it's logical conclusion. The asset values have to drop to ridiculous levels and the wages come down in the U.S to take away the wage arbitrage advantage that the Chinese and the Indians enjoy today. Wage coming down is not necessarily a bad thing as long as the quality of the life relative to the wages improve. Folks had better lifestyle in the mid 90s with half the wages today, better lifestyle in 1964 with 1/10 the wages today, when the real wage (inflation adjusted) peaked. We need to kill the inflation and the overbloated asset values, if we have to have any sustainable long term growth. But bernanke and his cronies have been doing just the opposite - creating inflation as opposed to creating real wealth. That's not a solution, just smoke and mirrors ! You ain't seen nothing yet !

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#17 iloli way

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:39 AM

"...the government lends money to private investors, who then use the money to buy the stuff...to use "the expertise of the market" to set the value of toxic assets." --Paul Krugman


So, before the gov't money, these "experts" said they were worth nothing, now the experts will tell us they are worth something, it seems like infinite gains are possible, if you can front run these trades...


"But the Geithner scheme would offer a one-way bet: if asset values go up, the investors profit, but if they go down, the investors can walk away from their debt. So this isn’t really about letting markets work. It’s just an indirect, disguised way to subsidize purchases of bad assets." --Paul Krugman

Now, will you buy the house at 70% discount with government money and walk away free if price of house fall under again?

Greed at work. All they need is for BKX to go up enough to claim the system works again, the happy days will take care of itself of another life cycle, and the global village can then celebrate the end of 911, finally.

Will it work? ...Ah, this wonderful life...traders by profession only ask: "Am I on the wrong side?"
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#18 arbman

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:58 AM

Hold on there! There is NO WAY the American worker can compete against the practically slave labor rates and standards of the developing countries; sweatshop labor conditions (with no overtime), low wages, no health care, no benefits. The first step to destroy the American worker is a totally political one, yet once you take the first step, the capitalism is totally functioning the way you expect it to be.

Beside, the world is not buying American products unless they absolutely have to and they copy any useful product instantly. So you have no intellectual property outside of US, hence you really do not have any pricing power abroad either. But, they have the same pricing power for their products in their country or here. So, you cannot win however you slice and dice it...

We need to kill the inflation and the overbloated asset values, if we have to have any sustainable long term growth.


Translation: we will match the Asian lifestyle. I wish it was simply a capitalism problem. But it isn't, because they don't respect and treat their labor the way the American Corporations HAVE TO treat their labor. You are trying force down the throat of the American capitalism the pricing they achieve with their not-so-capitalist ways...

The American Industries are significantly more expensive, because they have very high labor standards and this is all it comes down to. The average American has a lot more to loose here while they have a lot more to gain, the corporations did not care about this for a very long time. Now the only pricing power remaining in US is in the service sector, but the paper profits are unsustainable without the manufacturing to support most of the economy...

The globalization will destroy every American value eventually, once the country looses all of its living standards and match the rest of the world, then it will be all balanced and US will have a sustainable growth, whatever that means.

Conclusion: in the long run, the majority of the Americans MUST work to only earn some lunch money, have no buying power for anything and totally forget about any luxury item like most of their competitors in the other countries. Eventually once the Americans loose their financial freedom, they will also loose their freedom to think.

But bernanke and his cronies have been doing just the opposite - creating inflation as opposed to creating real wealth.


They are doing what they did in the past, but now in a completely different dynamics.

IF the country had not been loosing its wealth generating engines, it could effectively become more efficient and deal with the reflation efforts since the only real threat to the economy would be the commodity prices, NOT an unfair pressure from the global labor.

You have to see it beyond the simple pricing dynamics, the conditions leading up to the destruction of the American growth engines and the self-destructive paths taken to achieve the paper profits are all due to the political decisions to begin with...

#19 iloli way

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 04:45 AM

Forgive me if I sounded too simple idiosyncratic.

We still carry the BIGGEST stick overseas, and our own tens of millions illegal/semi-legal AMERICAN LABORS at home. WE CAN COMPETE! (I have such very simple FAITH) ;)


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#20 johngeorge

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 04:54 AM

Banks, resource stocks in Asia rocket before Geithner plan 5:44a ET March 23, 2009 (MarketWatch) HONG KONG (MarketWatch) -- Several Asian stock indexes rose 3% or more Monday, with financials leading a rally as investors awaited U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner's plan to stabilize U.S. banks.

Energy stocks provided additional thrust as crude-oil prices held above $52 a barrel.

China's Shanghai Composite Index gained for a sixth straight session to finish up 2% at 2,325.48. In Hong Kong, an index of large-capital China-related shares jumped 6.2%, while the benchmark Hang Seng Index rose 4.8% to 13,447.42.

Japan's Nikkei 225 returned from a holiday-extended weekend to rise 3.4% to 8,215.53, while Australia's S&P/ASX 200 and South Korea's Kospi Composite ended up 2.4% each. Taiwan's main index advanced 3.3%. New Zealand's NZX-50 bucked the trend, slipping 0.3%.

In afternoon trading, India's Sensex had gained 3.9% and Singapore's Straits Times was up 3.4%.

"With more details on the U.S. bad bank plan expected to come soon, it's hard for sellers to be aggressive," said Yumi Nishimura, a market analyst at Daiwa Securities SMBC.

Some markets reversed early declines, with U.S. stock futures rising more than 160 points in screen trade. Optimism carried over into currency trading, where investors sold the Japanese yen, perceived as a safe-haven currency, in favor of those deemed more risky.

The euro was higher at $1.3681, from $1.3560 late in New York on Friday. Against the yen it rose to 131.34 yen, from 130.07 yen on Friday, for its highest level since Oct. 21. The U.S. dollar was higher at 96.06 yen, from 95.90 yen on Friday.

Geithner was due to unveil details at 8:45 a.m. Eastern Time for a new investment fund to buy mortgage-related securities and other assets weighing down bank balance sheets.

He told the Wall Street Journal that the program envisioned the creation of a series of public-private investments to soak up $500 billion, and maybe as much as $1 trillion, in troubled loans and securities. To encourage investors to buy those assets, the government would offer lucrative subsidies and shoulder much of the risk.

But some analysts said markets are setting themselves up for a decline once the plan is detailed in full.

"The outrage over the American International Group bonuses has poisoned the water for public-private partnerships, which makes us doubtful that Geithner's plan will reduce policy risk," said analysts at ING.

Financial stocks pushed higher, with Australia & New Zealand Banking Group up 4.8% in Sydney, Mizuho Financial Group gaining 5.3% in Tokyo, Korea Exchange Bank climbing 5.9% in Seoul and Industrial & Commercial Bank of China rising 6.3% in Hong Kong. Oversea-Chinese Banking Corp. stock was trading 4% up in Singapore, while ICICI Bank gained 6.5% in Mumbai.

HSBC Holdings reversed sharp early losses in Hong Kong, where its share rights debuted trading, to end up 0.6%.

Among resource stocks, BHP Billiton jumped 3.5% and Rio Tinto surged 7.9% in Sydney, while INPEX CORP. rallied 6.7% in Tokyo. Aluminum Corp. of China spiked 16.3% in Hong Kong, while Sterlite Industries jumped 9.3% in Mumbai afternoon trading.

Spot gold reversed early gains, falling $3.60 from Friday's New York levels, to $949.00 a troy ounce.

Nymex crude-oil futures for May delivery were recently 77 cents higher at $52.84 a barrel on the Globex electronic platform. Koichi Murakami at Daiichi Shohin warned crude remains vulnerable to a correction, given a recent rise in U.S. oil inventories and as prices are around 10% higher than last week.

"Share prices, or anything else, could trigger selling. As prices have breached the fifty-dollar line, there will be a correction," Murakami said.

Taiwan's technology stocks rose with Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. closing up 5.5% on news it will end mandatory unpaid leave for its employees on April 1, as first quarter sales have picked up. UniMicron Technology rose 6.4% after its board approved a merger with Phoenix Precision Technology.

In Shanghai, steel and automotive stocks rose after Beijing announced stimulus measures for these sectors Friday. Baoshan Iron & Steel gained 1.2% and SAIC Motor gained 5.4%. In Shenzhen, Angang Steel Co. rose 2.7%.

"Hopes for fresh economic stimulus measures from Beijing will continue to push (yuan-dominated) A-shares higher," said Jacky Zhang, an analyst at Capital Securities.

Malaysia's main index rose 2.3%, Philippine shares advanced 2.5%, Indonesian shares climbed 3.2% and Thailand's SET had recently added 2.4%.
Peace
johngeorge