58 replies to this topic

[jacek]

And if you are counting on boosters for the wrong strain working.....best study up on ADE....

 

Since Israel is way out in front on the boosters, that will be the place to watch to see how they perform over time on Delta and successors....

 

My guess, from reading scientists who actually understand this stuff well, is that it aint gonna be pretty....

Are there any hard data on Cov-2 and ADE?

I know about ADE in MERS, and clearly it is conceivable for Cov-2 as well, but are there hard data for this? 

Please let me know if you know.  

[jacek]

 

Furthermore, the WHO director called into question whether booster shots are “effective at all,”

 

https://www.forbes.c...sh=7cb30c0a131b

 

 

This guy probably has an agenda ...

[Rogerdodger]

Follow the SCIENCE!

 

 

Remember this scientific cure from days gone by? Believe "Science": Drill a hole in your skull!

 

Blood Letting was once a sure cure. Drain out the bad blood. no problem.
 

Some sources suggest that the original practice of bloodletting is more than 3,000 years old and that the Ancient Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans — as well as many other ancient peoples — all used it for medical treatment.

It was the origin of the Barber Poll

.

 

But if that didn't work, Scientific Doctors would Drill a hole in your skull.

 

,

[K Wave]

 

And if you are counting on boosters for the wrong strain working.....best study up on ADE....

 

Since Israel is way out in front on the boosters, that will be the place to watch to see how they perform over time on Delta and successors....

 

My guess, from reading scientists who actually understand this stuff well, is that it aint gonna be pretty....

Are there any hard data on Cov-2 and ADE?

I know about ADE in MERS, and clearly it is conceivable for Cov-2 as well, but are there hard data for this? 

Please let me know if you know.  

 

Not hard yet, but may be almost there..

French say they have basically found it, as the antibodies that were neutralizing against Alpha strain apparently are now enhancing (ADE) with Delta.

 

This is why relying on original strain boosters may be pissing into the wind....

 

And again, this was predicted by multiple super credible scientists, based upon well established science....but they were simply called "conspiracy theorists"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/34384810/

 

As the NTD is also targeted by neutralizing antibodies, our data suggest that the balance between neutralizing and facilitating antibodies in vaccinated individuals is in favor of neutralization for the original Wuhan/D614G strain. However, in the case of the Delta variant, neutralizing antibodies have a decreased affinity for the spike protein, whereas facilitating antibodies display a strikingly increased affinity. Thus, ADE may be a concern for people receiving vaccines based on the original Wuhan strain spike sequence (either mRNA or viral vectors).

Edited by K Wave, 28 August 2021 - 12:09 PM.

[pdx5]

85.1% of new patients admitted to this hospital were UNVACCINATED. Obviously they are seriously sick to need hospitalization.

This is very good evidence that the experimental vaccines have worked very well to avoid hospitalization. 

85.1 : 14.9 are pretty good odds. I wish the odds were this good when I buy stocks.

 

Real data from a real hospital instead of opinions

[K Wave]

And more...flood growing every day. Notice the trend over time...looking more and more like the virus has completely escaped the gene shots.

 

https://www.mercuryn...vid-infections/

 

His team found that 78% of infections in fully vaccinated people among the study were caused by variants with these mutations, compared to 48% of the cases among unvaccinated people, who remained an easier target for earlier generations of the virus. Overall, the proportion of cases linked to these variants more than doubled between February and June.

 

However, vaccinated people who do have symptoms had the same levels of virus as infected unvaccinated people – so can spread the virus. This confirms a finding first revealed weeks ago by a CDC study in Provincetown, Massachusetts.

“You’re essentially as infectious as someone who was unvaccinated.

The third reason is this newer and worrisome trend: infection by a variant carrying resilient mutations. The new study found that the proportion of cases caused by these variants increased over five months from 40% to 89%.

And contrary to the lie they keep telling in the media, the gene shots are driving the variants that are resistant, as the gene shots are the only ones putting up a roadblock to drive a selective mutation...

The virus simply does not need to mutate around the gene shot in the unvaccinated, as the original strain can come right on in...so very little pressure to mutate.

 

Geert Vanden Bossche has written and warned extensively about this...but no one seems to care...

 

Read this article and see if it sounds like is dead right based upon what is now happening.

 

https://www.geertvan...s-herd-immunity

 

[K Wave]

85.1% of new patients admitted to this hospital were UNVACCINATED. Obviously they are seriously sick to need hospitalization.

This is very good evidence that the experimental vaccines have worked very well to avoid hospitalization. 

85.1 : 14.9 are pretty good odds. I wish the odds were this good when I buy stocks.

 

Real data from a real hospital instead of opinions

For a while, the cats and ferrets did well too....

 

The trends in Israel and UK, and now in the USA, are getting worse by the day in those ratios....

[jacek]

 

 

And if you are counting on boosters for the wrong strain working.....best study up on ADE....

 

Since Israel is way out in front on the boosters, that will be the place to watch to see how they perform over time on Delta and successors....

 

My guess, from reading scientists who actually understand this stuff well, is that it aint gonna be pretty....

Are there any hard data on Cov-2 and ADE?

I know about ADE in MERS, and clearly it is conceivable for Cov-2 as well, but are there hard data for this? 

Please let me know if you know.  

 

Not hard yet, but may be almost there..

French say they have basically found it, as the antibodies that were neutralizing against Alpha strain apparently are now enhancing (ADE) with Delta.

 

This is why relying on original strain boosters may be pissing into the wind....

 

And again, this was predicted by multiple super credible scientists, based upon well established science....but they were simply called "conspiracy theorists"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/34384810/

 

As the NTD is also targeted by neutralizing antibodies, our data suggest that the balance between neutralizing and facilitating antibodies in vaccinated individuals is in favor of neutralization for the original Wuhan/D614G strain. However, in the case of the Delta variant, neutralizing antibodies have a decreased affinity for the spike protein, whereas facilitating antibodies display a strikingly increased affinity. Thus, ADE may be a concern for people receiving vaccines based on the original Wuhan strain spike sequence (either mRNA or viral vectors).

 

Thank you for the reference, seems plausible.

I believe in experimental data and evidence, though much less in models and predictions. 

Curiously not much talk about cellular immunity, which is the key for long term protection.

 

To me, protection from hospitalization and death is all that matters. ADE etc, is an interesting nuance, but the protection from hospitalization and death out weights other possible negatives.  

 

We'll see how this shakes out.

Edited by jacek, 28 August 2021 - 12:37 PM.

[K Wave]

 

 

 

And if you are counting on boosters for the wrong strain working.....best study up on ADE....

 

Since Israel is way out in front on the boosters, that will be the place to watch to see how they perform over time on Delta and successors....

 

My guess, from reading scientists who actually understand this stuff well, is that it aint gonna be pretty....

Are there any hard data on Cov-2 and ADE?

I know about ADE in MERS, and clearly it is conceivable for Cov-2 as well, but are there hard data for this? 

Please let me know if you know.  

 

Not hard yet, but may be almost there..

French say they have basically found it, as the antibodies that were neutralizing against Alpha strain apparently are now enhancing (ADE) with Delta.

 

This is why relying on original strain boosters may be pissing into the wind....

 

And again, this was predicted by multiple super credible scientists, based upon well established science....but they were simply called "conspiracy theorists"

 

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/34384810/

 

As the NTD is also targeted by neutralizing antibodies, our data suggest that the balance between neutralizing and facilitating antibodies in vaccinated individuals is in favor of neutralization for the original Wuhan/D614G strain. However, in the case of the Delta variant, neutralizing antibodies have a decreased affinity for the spike protein, whereas facilitating antibodies display a strikingly increased affinity. Thus, ADE may be a concern for people receiving vaccines based on the original Wuhan strain spike sequence (either mRNA or viral vectors).

 

Thank you for the reference, seems plausible.

I believe in experimental data and evidence, though much less in models and predictions. 

Curiously not much talk about cellular immunity, which is the key for long term protection.

We'll see how this shakes out.

 

This is Malone's current take on ADE.

 

https://twitter.com/...525018170183685

 

ADE has not been confirmed in my opinion.

The better term is vaccine enhanced replication or disease.

ADE is a very specific subset of that broader category.

I am hearing many anecdotal reports consistent with vaccine enhanced disease occurring/Delta.

Awaiting more solid data.

[pdx5]

 

85.1% of new patients admitted to this hospital were UNVACCINATED. Obviously they are seriously sick to need hospitalization.

This is very good evidence that the experimental vaccines have worked very well to avoid hospitalization. 

85.1 : 14.9 are pretty good odds. I wish the odds were this good when I buy stocks.

 

Real data from a real hospital instead of opinions

For a while, the cats and ferrets did well too....

 

The trends in Israel and UK, and now in the USA, are getting worse by the day in those ratios....

 

This hospital IS THE TREND! It is brand new data, from this month.