45 replies to this topic

[claire]

It's quite evident that the 25-44 age group in Canada is being killed by the mRNA jabs. There is no other possible explanation for the excess deaths being reported: https://twitter.com/...930469511413760

 

 

"No other possible explanation?" This tweet ascribes excess deaths prior to the vaccines as "lockdown-related deaths," whatever that is, and in 2021, the timing of the rise of excess deaths were soon after vaccines were given, therefore caused by the vaccines?????? Excess deaths before vaccines is correlated with lockdowns and post vaccines with vaccines. This isn't even a straightforward correlation; it's a conclusion in search of a prejudged culprit.

 

Even if it were a clear correlation, I'm sure you're aware that correlation is not the same as causation. Many ridiculous conclusions may be drawn from spurious correlations interpreted as causation. The conclusion you derive may be "quite evident" to you because you know of no other possibilities, or may be discomforted by the fact that it may not yet be understood why or how this has occurred, and/or whether this is true in different places and under different conditions.  There are scientific standards for testing such information to help determine causation. This sure doesn't qualify.

[hhh]

People in the prime of life just spontaneously start dying way above the previous relatively constant average, it's perfectly normal. Along with previously healthy players of professional sports; it's totally normal for the average age of cardiac arrest on the field to be 23 years of age, nothing to see here. Safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective. https://www.thegatew...m_content=daily

[claire]

People in the prime of life just spontaneously start dying way above the previous relatively constant average, it's perfectly normal. Along with previously healthy players of professional sports; it's totally normal for the average age of cardiac arrest on the field to be 23 years of age, nothing to see here. Safe and effective, safe and effective, safe and effective. https://www.thegatew...m_content=daily

 

 

YES, very sadly, it's normal for COVID, and I've been commenting about this since well before vaccines were available --  the long-term consequences of damage to every organ in the body post-covid for 10-30% of healthy and fit young people who never needed hospitalization -  some seriously impaired for several months with slow recoveries, many still ongoing after two years and with unknown future damage that may impact their quality of life and longevity.

 

I have been apoplectic about people not following safety measures or being vaccinated when it has been well-established that such measures are protective with 80+% of those who died or needed hospitalization did not observe such cautions.

 

More information about damage to the heart as well as every other bodily system which may not be expressed fully for 12 months or more.  

 

Read some of these:

https://jamanetwork....article/2789793

https://www.heart.or...-brain-problems

https://www.science....-after-recovery

[hhh]

Just one problem with your "normal." These excess deaths are specifically identified as "not Covid related."

[claire]

Just one problem with your "normal." These excess deaths are specifically identified as "not Covid related."

 

 

They are rated as "not covid related" if they don't happen during or shortly after a covid identified infection. However. many people died months later, many  were never even tested for Covid, especially during the first 6 months of the pandemic, many were never hospitalized or with severe illness.

 

Read about the sequela of this infection. It can move through the body for months, attacking different organs with respites and relapses or with chronic low-grade impairments that are not easily identified by current lab tests or markers and after people test negative with the current tests for Covid. 

 

People who have had Covid have a 40% higher risk of diabetes within 12 months post infection (including children). Recently, it's been determined that damage to the heart may not present with symptoms until the damage reaches a tipping point. Many people have arcane neurological deficits including problems with cognitive processing.

 

Some genetic differences among people have been identified as increasing the likelihood of various systemic dysfunctions in healthy, young people and other genetic differences may be protective. https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/scientists-identify-new-gene-differences-severe-covid-patients-2022-03-07/ Some people who have never been either infected or vaccinated are immune to it independent of their general state of health or healthful habits. This was the outcome for volunteers who were intentionally given the infection. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00319-9

 

The virus can lurk in the brain, the testacles, fatty tissue or other tissues or organs, dormant for a while with flares or inducing chronic inflammation as well as triggering older infections that are dormant until excited, such as the Epstein Barr Virus or Herpes. For some, an autoimmune disease may be triggered.  https://www.scienced...20301131121.htm

 

Much is yet to be understood about this illness and its consequences in efforts to understand why some may get diabetes, others pulmonary fibrosis, still others have arrhythmias or myocarditis, others a stroke or neuropathies, GI problems or a variety of rashes as predominant among a plethora of symptoms that are presented. There are no simple answers.

[hhh]

Yes, when you have mostly an immune compromised population from food poisoned with HFCS, GMOs, extreme excess of omega 6 vs. omega 3 fats, pesticides, herbicides, glyphosate, etc. along with the "food pyramid" designed solely for industrial profits instead of human health, it's not surprising that that population is susceptible to any corona virus that comes along. This is what is wrong with North Americans' sick-care system. Covid just exposed the dismal state of general health in North America, it didn't cause it.

 

Back to correlation vs. causation: why is that the Branch Covidians get a free pass equating correlation with causation with mantras that are repeated and accepted ad nauseum such as: "It would've been so much worse if I hadn't got two experimental gene modification clot shots, and eleven boosters," or "There would have been nine more billion dead if it wasn't for the experimental gene modification clot shots?" There is exactly zero science supporting claims of "it would've been worse," but "qualified health authorities" never get called out on it.

Edited by hhh, 10 April 2022 - 10:34 AM.

[hhh]

Forgot to add a very important addition in the above list: chronicly low vitamin D levels due to overuse of sunscreen and high latitudes without dietary or supplement compensation, not to mention nutrient deficient foods due to depleted soils from bad crop management using modern inadequate fertilization techniques dependent solely on petroleum based chemical fertilizers instead of proper rotation, fallow periods, manures, etc.

[claire]

Yes, when you have mostly an immune compromised population from food poisoned with HFCS, GMOs, extreme excess of omega 6 vs. omega 3 fats, pesticides, herbicides, glyphosate, etc. along with the "food pyramid" designed solely for industrial profits instead of human health, it's not surprising that that population is susceptible to any corona virus that comes along. This is what is wrong with North Americans' sick-care system. Covid just exposed the dismal state of general health in North America, it didn't cause it.

 

Back to correlation vs. causation: why is that the Branch Covidians get a free pass equating correlation with causation with mantras that are repeated and accepted ad nauseum such as: "It would've been so much worse if I hadn't got two experimental gene modification clot shots, and eleven boosters," or "There would have been nine more billion dead if it wasn't for the experimental gene modification clot shots?" There is exactly zero science supporting claims of "it would've been worse," but "qualified health authorities" never get called out on it.

 

Forgot to add a very important addition in the above list: chronicly low vitamin D levels due to overuse of sunscreen and high latitudes without dietary or supplement compensation, not to mention nutrient deficient foods due to depleted soils from bad crop management using modern inadequate fertilization techniques dependent solely on petroleum based chemical fertilizers instead of proper rotation, fallow periods, manures, etc.

 

 

I agree with your comments about the dismal state of health of a majority of Americans and the impact of the excesses and deficits you mention. I'd add even more to that list with environmental toxins and chemical contamination of our water supplies. Yes, we would be less vulnerable with a healthier population, but Covid can and does cause serious illness and death among those who are healthy, fit, and without coexisting compromising conditions. A genetic susceptibility to this virus may play a large role, and there's no way to know in advance who may have such vulnerability.

 

Re your comment about "Branch Covidians" making false claims about death rates being lower post vaccination, this is evidence-based information. Numerous well-designed studies in America and elsewhere have established that there are far higher rates of hospitalizations and deaths among those who are unvaccinated.  

 

Citing just one such study in the USA of 4500+ patients at 21 hospitals, they conclude:

 

"Unvaccinated patients accounted for 91.0% (91/100) of deaths among patients with COVID-19 in this study. Death occurred in 9 of 142 (6.3%) vaccine breakthrough cases and 91 of 1055 (8.6%) unvaccinated patients with COVID-19. Progression to death after COVID-19 hospitalization was associated with a lower likelihood of vaccination (aOR, 0.41; 95% CI, 0.19-0.88)."  from: https://jamanetwork....article/2786039

 

The repeated finding for this correlation is quite different than noting the date on a graph when there were increased excess deaths in one particular location for a specified period of time and drawing conclusions from such limited data. While a specific number of lives saved by the vaccine can't be stated, it is possible to extrapolate a rough estimate from the data and discuss the probability of serious illness occurring with or without the vaccine.

[hhh]

The study found a 2.3 percentage point death reduction or roughly a 27% improvement over unjabbed (whose actual status is unknown due to many different definitions of what "jabbed" means, for example, less than 14 days post jab is often considered "unjabbed") in a study that used data ending in August 2021.

 

I think the results would be much worse now because that study was mostly for Alpha and Delta strains and for many participants was still within the brief window where jabs demonstrate some effectiveness against those particular strains. The data now coming in from NZ and the UK show the opposite and are so bad they decided to stop reporting them.

 

Also, the study classifed 20.1% as immunocompromised. I have no idea what percentage of the general population would be considered immunocompromised using their criteria, so that may or may not be a significant factor. 

 

There is no financial incentive for the pharmaceutical companies to investigate what is causing the excess deaths in a formerly relatively healthy age group obviously (unless of course they can come up with a medication that they can market as a cure) so we likely will never see studies from them addressing this massive increase in spontaneous fatalities in the prime of life. The insurance companies, however, have a huge, one might say existential requirement to investigate and adjust rates according to risks identified. If a small enough proportion of the pharmaceutical profits is sufficient to purchase the obfuscation of these data, we may never know for sure. Given Pfizer's previous criminal fine of $2.3 billion for fraud including the bribery of doctors, I don't believe my previous sentence is at all too cynical. 

[claire]

The world-wide excess death is being studied extensively. It's a very complex challenge that is far greater than simply counting bodies.  This article in Nature illuminates the complexity:  https://www.nature.c...586-022-00104-8

 

Here's one effort reported in JAMA presenting data from Texas from Mar -Dec, 2020 of excess deaths among 25-44 year olds:  https://jamanetwork....article/2786015

 

More data with demographics:  https://healthpolicy...covid-pandemic/

 

There have been a great many studies about this concern, but it will take a very long time to pinpoint causes, which may varied. Good data collection is the first step.  It requires far more than one or a few studies to get answers to such questions, and it requires replication of these studies.

 

People tend to be very impatient and want unattainable answers quickly. When they are not given this quickly by the scientific community, they are more likely to believe any charlatan who makes unsubstantiated claims and points to conspiracies opposing his views. Sometimes, we have to live with ambiguity or just not knowing.