36 replies to this topic

[risktaker]

Maybe when Zelenko,s report finally comes out and heavily peer-reviewed, he will change some scientists.

Edited by risktaker, 05 July 2020 - 11:38 AM.

[Rogerdodger]

If you have listened to Mr Trump, you would understand why people are so clueless.

 

 

Actually, If you have listened to the "EXPERTS", you would understand why people are so clueless, and dying!

 

Scientists say WHO ignores the risk that coronavirus floats in air as aerosol

More than 200 scientists from around the world are challenging the official view of how the coronavirus spreads.

“We are 100% sure about this,” said Lidia Morawska, a professor of atmospheric sciences and environmental engineering at Queensland University of Technology in Brisbane, Australia.

She makes the case in an open letter to the WHO accusing the United Nations agency of failing to issue appropriate warnings about the risk. A total of 239 researchers from 32 countries signed the letter, which is set to be published next week in a scientific journal.

CDC officials did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

 

"I'm old enough to remember when the experts said that wearing a mask was stupid.

Now they say not wearing one is criminal." ~ Dr. Rand Paul

 

.

Edited by Rogerdodger, 05 July 2020 - 11:52 AM.

[Rogerdodger]

WHO do you trust? Do you trust W.H.O.?

 

Do you remember the report that for the right amount of money, you can get a "study" published in a scientific journal?

Someone put it to the test and wound up with a published report which claimed that CoCoa Puffs cereal had marvelous health benefits, ignoring the fact that the second ingredient in Cocoa Puffs is sugar, making up 40% of the calorie content.

 

But we are told that no one should ever question "SCIENCE!"

So we learn that REAL science questions everything, whereas FAKE, agenda driven science attracts the gullible to their agenda.

 

Research Papers Raise Doubts, Fueling Global Questions About Scientific Integrity

Apparently fraudulent data in dozens of peer-reviewed articles spark fresh worries about ‘paper mills’ used by researchers under pressure to publish something, anything.

Fraudulent research made it past the scientific peer-review process at six international journals, with the European Review for Medical and Pharmacological Sciences alone publishing 113 of the 121 papers.

The cache of 121 papers, credited to researchers from hospitals and medical universities across roughly 50 cities in China, all shared at least one image with another.

The reports were published by different authors over a four-year period, many included identical snapshots of cell colonies—sometimes rotated or cropped to appear unique—despite focusing on different research topics. Phrases in figure captions were also repeated verbatim across the collection of reports.

One of the questionable reports was subsequently cited by other researchers more than 50 times since 2017, according to Google Scholar, while three others received more than 20 citations—suggesting the impact that the problematic papers could have on other research.

Such paper mill productions are “polluting the scientific body of work,” said Dr. Bik, a former researcher at the Stanford School of Medicine who quit her job at a medical startup last year to investigate research misconduct full-time.

“I’m worried they might be the tip of the iceberg.”

Edited by Rogerdodger, 05 July 2020 - 12:38 PM.

[risktaker]

Yeah, I do not look to WHO for coronavirus informatives.

I was only mentioning cluelessness about Hydroxychloroquine as a therapeutic.

[K Wave]

Yeah, I do not look to WHO for coronavirus informatives.

I was only mentioning cluelessness about Hydroxychloroquine as a therapeutic.

AGAIN...Hydroxy is not the the therapeutic...Zinc is.

Hdroxy is a delivery truck. There are others that are also Zinc Ionophores.

 

It seems some of you have zero clue about this...try actually reading this in detail.

 

Chloroquine is a Zinc Ionophore

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4182877/

 

and

 

Zn²⁺ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2973827/

 

Using these independent in vitro approaches, we were able to demonstrate that Zn²⁺ directly impairs nidovirus RNA synthesis, since it had a strong inhibitory effect in both RTC and RdRp assays. Interestingly, the Zn²⁺-mediated inhibition could be reversed through the addition of a Zn²⁺ chelator (MgEDTA). We therefore applied this compound to stop and restart the in vitro RNA-synthesizing activity at will.

[traderx]

entre, on 05 Jul 2020 - 11:13 AM, said:

I think herd immunity among super-spreaders who are in contact with lots of other people is the key.  60-70% herd immunity models wrongly assume uniform spreading potential when a minority of infected people are doing the majority of the spreading.  I think that's why New York topped out around a 20% infection rate.  If I'm right, the real wave 2 in New York and other states will start once the antibodies wear off.  Antibodies that herd immunity is based on, may only last 6-12 months.

I keep seeing people here say herd immunity. I searched on internet for it-New York and herd immunity, and can not find anyone saying that except on this board. New York has more press coverage than any where, and no articles, studies comments by anyone seeing that.

[entre]

 

entre, on 05 Jul 2020 - 11:13 AM, said:

I think herd immunity among super-spreaders who are in contact with lots of other people is the key.  60-70% herd immunity models wrongly assume uniform spreading potential when a minority of infected people are doing the majority of the spreading.  I think that's why New York topped out around a 20% infection rate.  If I'm right, the real wave 2 in New York and other states will start once the antibodies wear off.  Antibodies that herd immunity is based on, may only last 6-12 months.

I keep seeing people here say herd immunity. I searched on internet for it-New York and herd immunity, and can not find anyone saying that except on this board. New York has more press coverage than any where, and no articles, studies comments by anyone seeing that.

 

I think herd immunity is why New York's Covid-19 numbers seem to be less affected by large protest gatherings.

[entre]

 

 

The anti-HCQ crowd prefers to cite evidence without Zinc, because they know HCQ treatments without Zinc are inferior to the ones with Zinc:

 

https://news.yahoo.c...-215732283.html

Washington (AFP) - The antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine has shown mixed results against the coronavirus in early studies, but a new paper out of New York suggests combining it with the dietary supplement zinc sulfate could create a more effective treatment.

The research by the NYU Grossman School of Medicine was posted on a medical preprint site on Monday, meaning it hasn't yet been peer reviewed.

Records of about 900 COVID-19 patients were reviewed in the analysis, with roughly half given zinc sulfate along with hydroxychloroquine and the antibiotic azithromycin.

The other half only received hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin.

Those receiving the triple-drug combination had a 1.5 times greater likelihood of recovering enough to be discharged, and were 44 percent less likely to die, compared to the double-drug combination.

 

 

 

You're grasping at straws. This was a non-peer reviewed, non-controlled study that was reported on March 11th and has not been confirmed. No valid conclusions can be drawn from this paper. This review quotes the author:  "Rahimian said that it may be that when used to treat coronavirus patients, it is the zinc that does the heavy lifting and is the primary substance attacking the pathogen."

 

I'm all for clinical trials to test this.  Doctors have long suspected that HCQ and Zinc work synergistically and thought HCQ making it easier for Zinc to get inside infected cells and stop viral RNA replication was why, so HCQ trials with Zinc should have been started earlier.  It made me wonder if the reason why that didn't happen, was because the drug companies wanted to push Remdesivir instead, which has much higher profit margins than HCQ.

[claire]

 

Yeah, I do not look to WHO for coronavirus informatives.

I was only mentioning cluelessness about Hydroxychloroquine as a therapeutic.

AGAIN...Hydroxy is not the the therapeutic...Zinc is.

Hdroxy is a delivery truck. There are others that are also Zinc Ionophores.

 

It seems some of you have zero clue about this...try actually reading this in detail.

 

Chloroquine is a Zinc Ionophore

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC4182877/

 

and

 

Zn²⁺ Inhibits Coronavirus and Arterivirus RNA Polymerase Activity In Vitro and Zinc Ionophores Block the Replication of These Viruses in Cell Culture

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC2973827/

 

Using these independent in vitro approaches, we were able to demonstrate that Zn²⁺ directly impairs nidovirus RNA synthesis, since it had a strong inhibitory effect in both RTC and RdRp assays. Interestingly, the Zn²⁺-mediated inhibition could be reversed through the addition of a Zn²⁺ chelator (MgEDTA). We therefore applied this compound to stop and restart the in vitro RNA-synthesizing activity at will.

 

 

 

If you did read the "in detail," and you are addressing "people with zero clues," you should be aware that in vitro findings very frequently don't work out in vivo.  That is, what happens in a cell culture in a petri dish frequently doesn't have the same outcome in the body.

 

Also, this ncbi summary refers to chloroquine's inhibitory effect on autophagy clearing out of damaged cells) and the induction of apoptosis (cell death) in human cancer cells. This is an in vitro demonstration that chloroquine and zinc may be potential anticancer treatments, which is a number of steps removed from demonstrating that it works or that it works for C-19. You are also assuming that hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) which is a less toxic form of chloroquine (CQ) has the same effect. It may, but this has to be demonstrated.

 

I hope we learn that HCQ and zinc may be efficacious for some and part of the arsenal of drugs that are helpful. But we can't race to hasty conclusions that are not grounded by evidence. We need TIME to find the best treatments we can and the best protocols to reduce death and limit the severity of illness, but we have little time to learn more when this virus is spreading quickly throughout the country.

 

 

Edited by claire, 05 July 2020 - 02:28 PM.

[traderx]

I think herd immunity is why New York's Covid-19 numbers seem to be less affected by large protest gatherings.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------hace r

Herd immunity mentioned by several here.

35 states now  strongly rising virus stats---out of control

Don't worry, soon whole country will have herd immunity, so we all be safe.

Are you serious?