69 replies to this topic

[OEXCHAOS]

This article is regularly updated, but it is extremely helpful in getting a bead on the IFR (Infection Fatality Rate, which is all that matters. The CFR is meaningless).

From what I can tell, and this seems to be borne out by the antigen testing, the IFR for covid-10 is 0.1%-0.35%, and looking like it's more on the lower end of that range.

https://www.cebm.net...8FRlwtycsNAkhIw

[K Wave]

In 1968 I was in high school, and the schools were never closed that year, or any other year of my 16 years of primary, secondary or university attendance.

 

That is why it is obvious that this is not like the flu, it is much worse.

 

COVID19 has killed over 60,000 people in the US in the two months since the first death.  And that is while 70% of the US population has been under stay at home orders.  You can't just look at the deaths and say they are roughly the same, you have to consider the situation under which those deaths occurred.

 

How many do you think would have died from COVID19 if there had been no stay at home orders, which would have been analogous to the 1968 flu?

Why don't you have a look at Sweden and see just how bad it might have been. Hint: not a whole lot worse.

 

Certainly not worth destroying so many folks livelihoods.

 

But again this is Monday Morning QB talk....at the time, we did not know what we were dealing with yet.

Now, it is pretty evident that this will not exceed a .2 mortatility rate, so essentially a bad flu.

[K Wave]

There are no massive deaths in Africa, or for that matter in much of South America among people that have even a small amount of money - BECAUSE HCQ IS AN OVER THE COUNTER DRUG.  MOST  PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD IT TAKE A PROPHYLACTIC DOSE OF 1 PILL A WEEK TO PREVENT MALARIA.  

That is complete nonsense.

 

My wife is from Africa, and I have been there many times.

 

NO ONE I know over there takes HCQ regularly, although there certainly may be some expats who do. But that is a tiny fraction of the population.

The real reason people are not dying in great numbers in the warmer countries boils down to a healthier immune system in general by not having to suffer winter Vitamin D deficiency.

They are getting infected plenty, they just are not in general getting sick.

 

But I agree, HCQ early could have solved the vast majority of this mess.

 

If we look at France for example and imagine a world where Big Pharma/TDS did not pull out every stop to prevent HCQ from being used....

Dr Raoult has 16 deaths out of 3227 case treated so far, or a Case Fatality Rate of about .5%

France as a whole without Dr Raoult's patients currently has about 25,000 deaths on 165,000 cases, or a CFR of approx 15%

 

Now imagine every patient was given HCQ early, and France achieved about 1.5 times worse outcome than Dr. Raoult, or about .75% CFR

Then France would have had deaths in the neighborhood of 1250 deaths vs 25,000, and the France would not have needed to shut down.

 

Now imagine this done globally.......

Edited by K Wave, 04 May 2020 - 09:47 AM.

[K Wave]

 

There is a cure for COVID 19. HCQ+zinc+Zpac =no virus in 3-5 days. Must be administered early to prevent death in high risk population. Prevention ACE2 inhibitor = HCQ 200 mg twice a week. No virus, no need for zinc and anti-biotic. Given to all military during Vietnam at moderat therapeutic dose for term of enlistment. Reports - HCQ used to treat flu in the 1950's - we did not have CDC and "testing" back then. Cannot make a vaccine for an RNA virus - no vaccine for SARS, MERS or common cold. Must culture in mammal that it infects to remove anti-bodies - along with anti-bodies the vaccine will contain PRIONS - want to get CJD in 10 years.

BIG QUESTION - why is CDC and NIH so afraid of a 10 cent pill.

 

Your assertion has been disproved.

 

April 21, 2020 -

An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study, raising further questions about the safety and efficacy of a treatment that has seen widespread use in the pandemic.

 

The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.

 

Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.

 

More than 27 percent of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine died, and 22 percent of those treated with the combination therapy died, compared with an 11.4 percent death rate in those not treated with the drugs, the study said. The results were from an observational study of outcomes and were not part of a randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial, which is the gold standard for testing drugs.

 

https://www.washingt...nts-study-says/

 

 

Sorry Rich, you are being completely clueless here.

 

Did you actually read the study on the VA?

 

Read it and then get back to me...not the intended use of HCQ AT ALL.

 

I have no idea why people DO NOT GET that is needs to be given early for any real efficacy.

[Dex]

This article is regularly updated, but it is extremely helpful in getting a bead on the IFR (Infection Fatality Rate, which is all that matters. The CFR is meaningless).

From what I can tell, and this seems to be borne out by the antigen testing, the IFR for covid-10 is 0.1%-0.35%, and looking like it's more on the lower end of that range.

https://www.cebm.net...8FRlwtycsNAkhIw

Interesting that both Mexico and Canada have higher death rates then the USA.

 

But this is interesting also:

 

Between countries, case Fatality rates vary significantly, and over time, which suggests considerable uncertainty over the exact case fatality rates.

• The number of cases detected by testing will  vary considerably by country;
• Selection bias can mean those with severe disease are preferentially tested;

 

We won't know the final % until a good random sample survey is performed.

Edited by Dex, 04 May 2020 - 10:48 AM.

[K Wave]

 

This article is regularly updated, but it is extremely helpful in getting a bead on the IFR (Infection Fatality Rate, which is all that matters. The CFR is meaningless).

From what I can tell, and this seems to be borne out by the antigen testing, the IFR for covid-10 is 0.1%-0.35%, and looking like it's more on the lower end of that range.

https://www.cebm.net...8FRlwtycsNAkhIw

Interesting that both Mexico and Canada have higher death rates then the USA.

 

But this is interesting also:

 

Between countries, case Fatality rates vary significantly, and over time, which suggests considerable uncertainty over the exact case fatality rates.

• The number of cases detected by testing will  vary considerably by country;
• Selection bias can mean those with severe disease are preferentially tested;

 

We won't know the final % until a good random sample survey is performed.

 

FYI...Mexico is the most Obese country in the World.

May play a factor....

[Dex]

 

 

This article is regularly updated, but it is extremely helpful in getting a bead on the IFR (Infection Fatality Rate, which is all that matters. The CFR is meaningless).

From what I can tell, and this seems to be borne out by the antigen testing, the IFR for covid-10 is 0.1%-0.35%, and looking like it's more on the lower end of that range.

https://www.cebm.net...8FRlwtycsNAkhIw

Interesting that both Mexico and Canada have higher death rates then the USA.

 

But this is interesting also:

 

Between countries, case Fatality rates vary significantly, and over time, which suggests considerable uncertainty over the exact case fatality rates.

• The number of cases detected by testing will  vary considerably by country;
• Selection bias can mean those with severe disease are preferentially tested;

 

We won't know the final % until a good random sample survey is performed.

 

FYI...Mexico is the most Obese country in the World.

May play a factor....

 

 

I'm guessing NAFTA helped with that.

[Rich C]

 

 

There is a cure for COVID 19. HCQ+zinc+Zpac =no virus in 3-5 days. Must be administered early to prevent death in high risk population. Prevention ACE2 inhibitor = HCQ 200 mg twice a week. No virus, no need for zinc and anti-biotic. Given to all military during Vietnam at moderat therapeutic dose for term of enlistment. Reports - HCQ used to treat flu in the 1950's - we did not have CDC and "testing" back then. Cannot make a vaccine for an RNA virus - no vaccine for SARS, MERS or common cold. Must culture in mammal that it infects to remove anti-bodies - along with anti-bodies the vaccine will contain PRIONS - want to get CJD in 10 years.

BIG QUESTION - why is CDC and NIH so afraid of a 10 cent pill.

 

Your assertion has been disproved.

 

April 21, 2020 -

An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study, raising further questions about the safety and efficacy of a treatment that has seen widespread use in the pandemic.

 

The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.

 

Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.

 

More than 27 percent of patients treated with hydroxychloroquine died, and 22 percent of those treated with the combination therapy died, compared with an 11.4 percent death rate in those not treated with the drugs, the study said. The results were from an observational study of outcomes and were not part of a randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial, which is the gold standard for testing drugs.

 

https://www.washingt...nts-study-says/

 

 

Sorry Rich, you are being completely clueless here.

 

Did you actually read the study on the VA?

 

Read it and then get back to me...not the intended use of HCQ AT ALL.

 

I have no idea why people DO NOT GET that is needs to be given early for any real efficacy.

 

No, I am not clueless.  This is what was posted:  "There is a cure for COVID 19. HCQ+zinc+Zpac =no virus in 3-5 days".  The VA study clearly shows that is false.

 

From the study: "Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs."

 

Clearly hydoxychloroquine is NOT a cure for COVID19.

 

Now to a separate point, whether hydroxychloroquine (HCLQ) would have benefit as a prophylactic, a medicine that is used to prevent a disease from occurring, that is a different matter.  There was some anecdotal reports that HCLQ was an effective treatment, but under more scientific study that proved not to be the case, which is often the case in drug trials.  How many trials "show promise" in phase 1 trial, also in phase 2 trial, and yet fail in phase 3 trial.  All that seems apparent is not necessarily so.

 

So I looked around and there IS a trial underway to study the potential prophylactic effect of HCLQ on COVID19.  You can read about it at the link below, and at one pill per week, you can imagine that it would take many weeks to prove that the drug actually has a prophylactic effect.  At one pill per week, I don't see an obvious way to speed up the trial.  On the other hand, if people have safely taken that dose for decades and there is little to no health risk, then I don't know why we would not take it and call if, "for prevention of malaria".  I would hope the heart issues seen in the hospital for treatment of sick patients, and I am assuming daily dosing, that the heart problems would not happen with once a week dosing.  There are probably not enough pills to dose the whole world, but you could go in a priority order while manufacturing is ramped up.

 

https://clinicaltria...how/NCT04331834

 

I took a quinine pill in the late '70's on a two month assignment in the Middle East, I don't know which one it was, everyone just called it quinine.  I think I took it once a week.

 

I am a high risk profile patient if I get this thing, and I am looking for things that work.  I don't give a hoot about politics on this one, if HCLQ is beneficial in ANY situation, then it needs to be proven, risk needs to be mitigated and then I am all for it.

Edited by Rich C, 04 May 2020 - 02:22 PM.

[MaryAM]

India has FOUR times as many people as United States.

Guess how many have died from covid in India?  The total 1,306 deaths reported through today !

 

All Deaths get reported, can not hide deaths. Why so few deaths in India with 1300+ million people?

It is already summer there? Indians have developed resistance to viruses?

India immediately put all their medical personnel on HCQ prophylactically.  On all infected started HCQ+Zn+zpac.  Immediately treated all family members exposed to HCQ and if positive the HCQ+Zn+Zpac.  HCQ given to all elderly and high risk people.  Infection is contained to one or two areas in India.   Our NIH and CDC is letting people die by not making the treatment mandatory. 80 Veterans in one facility in Massachusetts dead.   NIH and CDC are ----- there isn't a word to describe this level of evil.  

[K Wave]

AGAIN...it only works as a "cure" if you take it early before viral load builds up too high.

So you are correct that it will not cure advanced stage disease in most cases, which is what the media has been playing up.

 

Multiple Docs have had fantastic success using it early, and many Docs are taking low dose HCQ prophylactically, as it works that way as well.

 

The heart issues are rare, and the only reason the Brazil study had issues is that the patients were given extremely high dose (1200mg, toxcity at 2000mg) in essentially a "let's see what happens if we give very bad off patients a high dose".

And to call the VA document a "study" is a bit of a joke. Dosage not even mentioned anywhere in the thing, among other massive issues.

 

I was actually just speaking with a Dutch bush pilot in Africa yesterday and we got to talking about HCQ.

He does not take any Anti-Malarials. He told me about getting Malaria once. He said as soon as the symptoms starting coming on, he took the HCQ, and within 48 hours he was good to go.

 

This is very similar to what is being described by the Docs using HCQ early, even though it is working on a different type of "bug".

Interestingly, in both cases, it appears that the HCQ raising ph levels is the key to the action.

 

Another reason the "west" is getting so much harder may have to do with a diet and drug environment that in general lowers ph in the body, which body naturally attempts to correct, but in a stressed state may not be able to do it as well.

In which case, even more need for the ph raising effects of HCQ.

 

Of course, nothing is 100% effective, especially if you already in bad shape to start with, and that is why there are some deaths even with early treatment.

If you are just starting the HCQ upon hospitalization, your window for "cure" type activity has likely passed.

But those deaths are a tiny fraction compared to "conventional" treatment for at risk patients, which often times leads to hospitalization and death.

How anyone can't see that after looking at the French numbers on the 2 treatment options is beyond me.

Edited by K Wave, 04 May 2020 - 04:04 PM.