64 replies to this topic

[redfoliage2]

It depends who got the virus.  The recent spike in the infection was likely due to protesters activities, and many of them even did not have symptoms, and you will see the death numbers remains in down trend and the ratio of Deaths/confirmed cases keeps decreasing. 

By the way I put my money where my mouth is and bought some TQQQ on this dip in the afternoon today  ............

Edited by redfoliage2, 24 June 2020 - 03:57 PM.

[diogenes227]

Yup, two plus two equals three.

 

(tap the headline for the roundup)

 

 

 

[claire]

It will take more time to see those who were infected by these young people to need hospitalization and possibly die. We are still in the first wave for the nation unlike NY where there were the most stringent controls enforced. 

 

Another factor few are giving any notice is that there is increasing evidence that recovery isn't necessarily such a simple matter. We focus on hospitalizations and deaths, but have learned that even asymptomatic people may have damage to their organs at levels which don't compromise their health now but could have long-term repercussions. 

 

Lungs show scaring, kidneys may be impacted, just about every organ is vulnerable even when there are no obvious symptoms from mild infections in people we consider recovered as well as in people who were asymptomatic. The latest findings show neurological symptoms emerging among many who were never hospitalize but have ongoing symptoms for more than three months that may be chronic. Autoimmune diseases may be triggered. 

And these occur in a sizeable sample of the population studied. Don't underestimate the danger. It's neither rare nor minor and can have a lasting impact on the healthcare system and the economy beyond the suffering of a large percentage of the population. Added to that, some recent finding show that antibodies to C-19 seem not to last long, which can mean reinfection and, even worse, that vaccines may not be effective.

Some of you who post here seem to feel invulnerable or that these concerns are inflated for political reasons. Some of you believed it would fade away in warm temperature. If you would like to see links to established and respected medical institutions and studies confirming my statements, I can supply many.

[risktaker]

Redfoliage2, true that! Adding to that, Hospital availability is important to minimize death counts.

[risktaker]

Thanks claire! I hope these infected ones will not be affecting more vulnerable parents and isolated communities when they show no symptoms.

Edited by risktaker, 24 June 2020 - 04:36 PM.

[claire]

Thanks claire! I hope these infected ones will not be affecting more vulnerable parents and isolated communities when they show no symptoms.

 

Sadly, it's very likely they will.

[pdx5]

It will take more time to see those who were infected by these young people to need hospitalization and possibly die. We are still in the first wave for the nation unlike NY where there were the most stringent controls enforced. 

 

Another factor few are giving any notice is that there is increasing evidence that recovery isn't necessarily such a simple matter. We focus on hospitalizations and deaths, but have learned that even asymptomatic people may have damage to their organs at levels which don't compromise their health now but could have long-term repercussions. 

 

Lungs show scaring, kidneys may be impacted, just about every organ is vulnerable even when there are no obvious symptoms from mild infections in people we consider recovered as well as in people who were asymptomatic. The latest findings show neurological symptoms emerging among many who were never hospitalize but have ongoing symptoms for more than three months that may be chronic. Autoimmune diseases may be triggered. 

And these occur in a sizeable sample of the population studied. Don't underestimate the danger. It's neither rare nor minor and can have a lasting impact on the healthcare system and the economy beyond the suffering of a large percentage of the population. Added to that, some recent finding show that antibodies to C-19 seem not to last long, which can mean reinfection and, even worse, that vaccines may not be effective.

Some of you who post here seem to feel invulnerable or that these concerns are inflated for political reasons. Some of you believed it would fade away in warm temperature. If you would like to see links to established and respected medical institutions and studies confirming my statements, I can supply many.

I have been out and about, even took in a crowded cruise, visiting restaurants, grocery stores, hospital, bank, post office, gas stations, the magnificent beaches in saint Augustine, shopping, picking up food from restaurants.  

Never wear a mask unless the store requires it. No symptoms whatsoever, and all I am doing is not touching face with unwashed hands. Bonus is, I also have avoided colds and influenza by washing hands frequently.

 

My theory is someone coughing near you is less probable than  you touching objects others have touched who have the infection. I see people examining several  fruits, every tomato, every cabbage head, every cantaloupe before they place it in their cart. Contamination galore. You pick up that fruit and place in your cart, then scratch your nose or eyes, you will get infected. 

 

May be I should lock myself up in my house because I  am 80 years old. But then I would lose valuable time to enjoy the rest of my life. Can't wait to go on another cruise, looking at November cruises.

Edited by pdx5, 24 June 2020 - 05:10 PM.

[claire]

 

It will take more time to see those who were infected by these young people to need hospitalization and possibly die. We are still in the first wave for the nation unlike NY where there were the most stringent controls enforced. 

 

Another factor few are giving any notice is that there is increasing evidence that recovery isn't necessarily such a simple matter. We focus on hospitalizations and deaths, but have learned that even asymptomatic people may have damage to their organs at levels which don't compromise their health now but could have long-term repercussions. 

 

Lungs show scaring, kidneys may be impacted, just about every organ is vulnerable even when there are no obvious symptoms from mild infections in people we consider recovered as well as in people who were asymptomatic. The latest findings show neurological symptoms emerging among many who were never hospitalize but have ongoing symptoms for more than three months that may be chronic. Autoimmune diseases may be triggered. 

And these occur in a sizeable sample of the population studied. Don't underestimate the danger. It's neither rare nor minor and can have a lasting impact on the healthcare system and the economy beyond the suffering of a large percentage of the population. Added to that, some recent finding show that antibodies to C-19 seem not to last long, which can mean reinfection and, even worse, that vaccines may not be effective.

Some of you who post here seem to feel invulnerable or that these concerns are inflated for political reasons. Some of you believed it would fade away in warm temperature. If you would like to see links to established and respected medical institutions and studies confirming my statements, I can supply many.

I have been out and about, even took in a crowded cruise, visiting restaurants, grocery stores, hospital, bank, post office, gas stations, the magnificent beaches in saint Augustine, shopping, picking up food from restaurants.  

Never wear a mask unless the store requires it. No symptoms whatsoever, and all I am doing is not touching face with unwashed hands. Bonus is, I also have avoided colds and influenza by washing hands frequently.

 

My theory is someone coughing near you is less probable than  you touching objects others have touched who have the infection. I see people examining several  fruits, every tomato, every cabbage head, every cantaloupe before they place it in their cart. Contamination galore. You pick up that fruit and place in your cart, then scratch your nose or eyes, you will get infected. 

 

May be I should lock myself up in my house because I  am 80 years old. But then I would lose valuable time to enjoy the rest of my life. Can't wait to go on another cruise, looking at November cruises.

 

 

pdx5 - Not touching your face and frequently washing hands is considered a very important deterrent. However, not wearing a mask may increase your risk. Maybe you've been lucky. Maybe you've not been close enough to an infected person long enough to be put at risk, but it seems from existing evidence that masks have a strong role in protecting people. Maybe you've already been infected and had no symptoms and carry some immunity to the virus. All elderly people are not necessarily symptomatic just as all young and healthy people don't avoid serious repercussions.

 

There's much to learn about this virus, the biology of those who become ill, and why/how it is expressed in people differently. I certainly wouldn't recommend that you lock yourself up or do anything that you haven't done other than to add a mask for greater protection.

 

But the last thing we should do is to deny or minimize the risk by believing we are protected by divine intervention or that this danger is highly inflated and little more than the flu, or that it's a politically inspired conspiracy in the service influencing the election, or any other nonsense that encourages people to behave very recklessly leading to the spread of the virus.

 

We need to buy time to find better ways of managing this illness so fewer people die or have serious organ damage. We need to buy time to learn much more about the complex ways this illness wrecks the havoc it does and use that information proactively. We need time to try to develop vaccines that work and not rush the process to the point at which they may be ineffective or cause further damage. We need time to learn what are the best protective effects. And, we need policies that don't put our nation at risk of another 120,000 people or even more dying and a great many more with life-long serious health problems.

 

[pdx5]

claire, if I hear anyone coughing in store, I get the heck out of there ASAP.

out of my 20 or so visit to stores, I heard a cough only once.

But I am sure I must have touched 10,000 items others have touched before me.

 

I am fast on my feet, with my daily routine of 30 minutes on treadmill moving at 22 min/mile and 3 deg up slope.

You are mostly right about mask giving some protection, but keep in mind airborne virus can get in through eyes just as easy. Mask is meant to protect others from you in case you cough or sneeze or talk loudly.

 

As for deaths, 90-95% of deaths are among the group with serious existing health issues. Not saying those people should die sooner with covid-19, but they were not going to be around very long.  

 

May be we will have less people dying from influenza this season because some of them succumbed to covid-19.

Another stat to keep in mind, 2.5 million Americans die every year from various diseases such as heart disease, strokes, cancer, and many of the infectious diseases. 125,000 dead from covid-19 is 5% of one years deaths, and those 2.5 million die year after year, every year. Hopefully covid-19 will not be a recurring phenomena. 

Edited by pdx5, 24 June 2020 - 06:56 PM.

[claire]

claire, if I hear anyone coughing in store, I get the heck out of there ASAP.

out of my 20 or so visit to stores, I heard a cough only once. 

 

I am fast on my feet, with my daily routine of 30 minutes on treadmill moving at 22 min/mile and 3 deg up slope.

You are mostly right about mask giving some protection, but keep in mind airborne virus can get in through eyes just as easy.

Mask is meant to protect others from you in case you cough or sneeze or talk loudly.

 

It sounds like you're in great shape, but there are triathlon athletes and other very fit and healthy young people who have been taken down by this virus. Also, not everyone presents with a cough as an initial symptom. Some start with G.I. symptoms, sore throats, neurological symptoms, malaise, or other symptoms. Further, it seems that people may be most symptomatic 2-3 days before they experience any symptoms as well as early in their illness, and asymptomatic people who never feel ill are contagious. So, avoiding people who cough isn't enough. Yes, it can enter the eye, but this seems to be a less likely portal. And, masks protect not only others but also offer protection to the wearer. Fewer viral particles are likely to be inhaled even though the particles are small enough to penetrate the masks, and viral load seems to make a difference. It may be at least one of the reasons that many Asian countries have done well where mask-wearing is endemic. This could be the most simple intervention to limit the trajectory of this illness as a public health measure for the good of the nation.