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#71 andr99

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 05:55 AM

science is hated......a few years ago I had a friend who is a perfect example of how it is disliked. She knew everything about exoterism.......chakra......mantra........and only she knows what else, but she was exogenous to

 

science which was completely unfamiliar to her. After a while I lost contact with her because the only thing I was interested in, was if she made me know the other girls around her, which thing was very difficult to obtain, so that 

 

after a while I was tired of her chakra, mantra etc. and I gave up meeting her. It was a funny period....however. I can' t remember how many idiocies she told me.......LOL.....still laughing when I, rarely, think to her  


Edited by andr99, 10 September 2021 - 05:57 AM.

forever and only a V-E-N-E-T-K-E-N - langbard


#72 fib_1618

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 12:14 PM

And as the goal posts continue to be moved, we now have a new definition from the CDC on what a "vaccination" is: https://tinyurl.com/yzuqmbng

 

cdc-definitions.jpeg

 

Real science isn't hated...believing Marxist bureaucrats posing to be scientists to control your life is.

 

Fib


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#73 Rogerdodger

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 12:34 PM

Real science isn't hated...believing Marxist bureaucrats posing to be scientists to control your life is.

 

Galileo.jpg



#74 jacek

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 01:30 PM

And as the goal posts continue to be moved, we now have a new definition from the CDC on what a "vaccination" is: https://tinyurl.com/yzuqmbng

 

cdc-definitions.jpeg

 

Real science isn't hated...believing Marxist bureaucrats posing to be scientists to control your life is.

 

Fib

bureaucrats. none of these terms is defined



#75 andr99

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Posted 10 September 2021 - 02:02 PM

just one last thing before exiting this argument which is not the one I like the most. I have never got vaccinated against any flu virus before. There are people here where I live, old and young, that every year in early Winter get vaccinated. I never got vaccinated against one of these flu viruses, as I' ve always thought that given my age I can overcome flu by myself if I get it. But covid is another thing and so I decided for the very first time to get vaccinated. I got both doses and I' m glad I did it. When I go out I wear my usual ffp2 mask, I stay away from close contacts with other people when I go to the supermarket and I' m waiting for the third dose, which I will get. To me you have more advantages than risks if you get vaccinated, but however it' s a personal decision. 


Edited by andr99, 10 September 2021 - 02:05 PM.

forever and only a V-E-N-E-T-K-E-N - langbard


#76 claire

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 12:24 PM

 

Yeah but for all those ones you listed, you don't need to take a new booster every 6 months for the rest of your life like this is looking like, at least with the sh*tty mRNA vaccines. Amazing tech, but obviously still in beta with studies that aren't playing out well in the real world.  Didn't the initial data show way longer than 6 months?  That's barely a vaccine. I bet even if we did start vaccinating kids under 12, it would still spread like wildfire anyway.  Some scientists say the way the mRNA vaccines are working is helping the virus to mutate its spike protein even faster than if we were using traditional type vaccines. 

Also, maybe my memory is fuzzy, but didn't a bunch of science say that coronaviruses are supposed to mutate way slower than the flu? What's making it mutate so much faster this time around?

 

And for those getting your panties in a bunch because more than one booster shot may be needed or that annual vaccines may be needed, you may not be aware that this is common. We do that for the flu shot. Also, 2nd or even 3rd shots are used for other typical vaccines: DPT, MMR, Varicella, HPV, Hepatitis A and B, and Meningococcal disease.

 


Answers to some of your questions   

 
First of all, we don't know that we will need to have a new booster every six months. That is highly unlikely. For the flu, we need one/year. The flu is a seasonal virus that wanes during the winter in temperate zones. People do get the flu all year, but far fewer. Covid may turn out to be similar, but at the moment, it appears not to be. It's impossible to know the answer when there are confounding variables, particularly because of the enormous numbers of people currently infected in the middle of a pandemic.
 
Original data did indicate that the best guess at that time was for vaccine immunity to last approximately six months - always with the caveat that it may be less for some, especially those who are immunocompromised, including those who don't know they are immunocompromised in a way that makes them more vulnerable to this infection although they may be young and healthy. 
 
We still don't know what the outside limits may be for immunity, which may be one year, many years, or possibly lifetime immunity or partial immunity for some. We do know that immunity wanes for most with increased infectivity but far less serious illness, hospitalizations, and death for an overwhelming majority. 
 
However, the estimate for the length of immunity originally was for the most prevalent variant at the time. Now we have the delta variant which is less vulnerable to the vaccine, though it still is highly protective and more protective than the flu vaccines are for that virus. 
 
The delta variant is 2x-3x more contagious than the original version. It also replicates more quickly and people carry a much higher viral - as much as 10x higher in their nasal passages-- which makes it far more likely to cause serious infection among those not vaccinated and more transmissible. 
 
Covid does mutate more slowly than the flu but it is more contagious. Also, realize that the more people that are infected, the higher the number of mutations. Current estimates are that each infected person carries approximately 10 to the ninth to 11th power virions during peak transmission. Figure out that number! The answer is one billion to 11 billion, each with the ability to mutate.

The mutation rate may be lower, but it still adds up to far more variations when many millions of infections are happening around the world. That's the answer to your query about "what makes it mutate much faster?" We have no information that it is mutating faster per the number of infections - i.e., the rate.  Other variants could possibly mutate more quickly. This is a pandemic!
 
Vaccinations and protective measures have reduced the spread of Covid enormously. The 1918 flu led to 675,000 deaths in the U.S. and we had about one-third the population. That would translate to approximately 2 million deaths without the measures we have in place. Also, the numbers were likely skewed lower for the flu due to poor data collection at the time.
 
Skeptics bemoan the breakthrough infections and come to the conclusion that the vaccines are ineffective and dangerous. Even the measles vaccine which is incredibly effective fails to protect about 3% of the population exposed. The Salk polio vaccine that was hailed as a medical miracle was 80-90% effective at preventing paralysis. But mass vaccinations contained the spread leaving few infected people with whom to interact. Breakthroughs of the flu are even more common which fluctuates between 40-60% effectivity. All vaccines and medications may have unintended side effects for some. Even consumption of ordinary food can cause serious symptoms for some. These vaccines have been incredibly safe.
 
Vaccine conspiracy theories aren't new. They date back to the first smallpox vaccine and include the vaccine for rabies when Pasteur was accused of seeking to profit from his discovery. There were protests against tuberculosis vaccines with BCG, diphtheria, tetanus, and whooping cough in the 1920s. We've had fake autism scares that continue today regarding the measles vaccine as well as about the MMR vaccine. In Afghanistan, the Taliban banned the polio vaccines, calling them a Western plot to kill children. Now, conspiracy theories are proliferating beyond belief with the help of social media where quackery and five minutes of fame are readily available.
 
Meanwhile, we see an alarming trend in America while other rich countries see a steadily downward slope and we are flatlining. Only 53.6% of Americans are fully vaccinated with a  much lower % in broad regions of the country. Other protections such as masking and social distancing have been ridiculed by many. A large study in Bangladesh found that infections went down about 10% overall and 34% for those over age 60 within 2 months when free masks were dispersed and their use increased significantly in that region.
 
Denmark has been a leader in its success in managing the pandemic. Nearly 90% of people have at least one dose and about 75% have had two doses of vaccination with 96% of those 65 or older. Voluntary compliance with prior regulations among the Danish people has been exceptional. Currently, almost all restrictions have been lifted. They consider the epidemic well under control but warned that the government will act as needed if the situation changes. 
 
There's so much more to address, but bottom line, think risk vs. reward. The answer should be clear: vaccinations plus good masks, plus safe contact, especially indoors. 


#77 K Wave

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Posted 11 September 2021 - 03:25 PM

just one last thing before exiting this argument which is not the one I like the most. I have never got vaccinated against any flu virus before. There are people here where I live, old and young, that every year in early Winter get vaccinated. I never got vaccinated against one of these flu viruses, as I' ve always thought that given my age I can overcome flu by myself if I get it. But covid is another thing and so I decided for the very first time to get vaccinated. I got both doses and I' m glad I did it. When I go out I wear my usual ffp2 mask, I stay away from close contacts with other people when I go to the supermarket and I' m waiting for the third dose, which I will get. To me you have more advantages than risks if you get vaccinated, but however it' s a personal decision. 

 

You are right, it should ABSOLUTELY be a personal decision.

 

I took the opposite approach, as I judged the risk differently than you.

I jumped at the chance to get infected when the opportunity arose, knowing that my chances of getting affected seriously were remote (Not frail elderly, not anywhere close to obese, not an over zealous athlete with depleted NAD+), versus possible endless booster shots with an experimental approach that has already shown substantial short term side effects, with as yet unknown long term consequences.

I had a few days of inconvenience, and now I almost assuredly have much longer lasting and more robust protection from the future versions of this that come our way than any of the Gene Shot recipients.

 

Don't know if you saw the latest UK data that shows the Gene Shots actually now have a negative effect on infection when measured on a per capita basis vaxxed vs unvaxxed, while at this juncture they still provide substantial protection against serious disease.

Now that UK is finally putting out some age stratified actually useful data, we can now monitor the ratios going forward to see if the hospitalization and death ratios continue to worsen for the Gene Shot recipients, as I expect them to over time.

 

Just got my Antibody get out jail results back today.

They are not going to be able to exclude folks like myself from the draconian passport regimes for much longer (a big part of the reason I chose to get infected....I sadly realize that I have to deal with fearful/insane people around me for at least a while to come).

Too much data has come out showing that natural immunity is far better (Israel 27X for symptomatic infection at just 3 months post-shot, cleveland clinic 0 out 1359 reinfected..yada yada yada)

As it turns out, despite the constant media lies to the contrary (to push the shot as your only course of action), 100 years of science has not actually been tossed out the window due to a slightly different version of coronavirus.rolleyes.gif

 

And you are not vaccinated. Do not kid yourself about that. Otherwise there would not be a 27-fold symptomatic infection difference in the so-called "vaccinated" and the truly vaccinated through natural infection at just 3 months post shot. (I know actual logic does not work with some folks, but always worth a try, eh)

You took what is effectively a longer term antibody treatment that was manufactured in your body, rather than injected. So instead of about a month with a monoclonal IV injection, you get 6-8 months of potential protection (hence the absolute panic in the Israeli PM when he went on TV begging folks to take the booster, another short term fix)....at least until the virus descendants decide to use the elevated antibodies as helpers instead of being neutralized anyway....

 

Vanden Bossche does not think we will not make it through the winter before full escape occurs, as Delta is only partial...we will see if he continues to be correct....

Hopefully not, for the sake of billions who could be subject to severe disease if he is right...



#78 Rogerdodger

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Posted 12 September 2021 - 11:27 AM

The Covid "news" is all over the place...

 

 

NY hospital stops baby deliveries after staffers quit over jab mandate...

 

UK SCRAPS VAX PASSPORT
NO MORE LOCKDOWNS

 

Snowbirds Heading to Florida, Arizona Despite Delta...

Customer refused mask in WELLS FARGO. Waited to ambush manager after his shift...

Thousands released from prison because of Covid. Will they have to return?

 

Why America's So Bad at Keeping People Alive...

 

Europe's doors slamming shut for Americans...

 

UN chief: World at 'pivotal moment' and must avert crises...

Breakdown of global order...

 

Have a good day!


Edited by Rogerdodger, 12 September 2021 - 11:32 AM.


#79 K Wave

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Posted 12 September 2021 - 11:46 AM

And the dam breaks.....

 

https://www.detroitn...ion/8262491002/

 

Spectrum Health workers can use natural immunity as vaccine mandate exemption

 

Only for 3 months to start..so still partial clown world, but open to being updated, and it will be as the naturally immune continue to far outperform the Gene Shot recipients over time.


Edited by K Wave, 12 September 2021 - 11:48 AM.