Jump to content



Photo

OT..unbelievable


  • Please log in to reply
78 replies to this topic

#21 dwnowhere1

dwnowhere1

    Member

  • Traders-Talk User
  • 156 posts

Posted 05 September 2021 - 06:43 PM

 

?You need to dispense with this attitude.
 The vaccinated are spreading covid like nobody's business. And they're getting sick. Your snark is offensive and unscientific. We've got an an effing problem going on right now.

 

Not an attitude.  Just believe we need a voice with the truth (or at least some portion of the truth) as a counter to misinforming posts, this tread and others, of what is really going on.  As an old sage once said >> Ignorance is Bliss.


Edited by dwnowhere1, 05 September 2021 - 06:43 PM.


#22 claire

claire

    Member

  • Traders-Talk User
  • 528 posts

Posted 05 September 2021 - 07:04 PM

 

Whatever happened to "Herd Immunity"?

 

Blood donations show 83% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies!

Katie Camero
Fri, September 3, 2021, 4:47 PM

More than 80% of Americans have coronavirus antibodies acquired through infection or vaccination, according to a new study of over 1.4 million blood donations across the U.S.

The study, published Thursday in the journal JAMA, included blood samples of Americans 16 and older collected by 17 different organizations from all 50 states, Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico. Donations represent 74% of the U.S. population, researchers said.

Estimates show that from July to December 2020 — before vaccines were available — the percentage of Americans 16 years or older with coronavirus antibodies from infection jumped from 3.5% to 11.5%. By May 2021, the percentage of Americans with infection-derived antibodies increased to about 20%.

But when researchers combined the number of people with antibodies from either infection or vaccination, they found about 83% of Americans had earned them.

 

 

Herd immunity can be reached when enough people in the population have recovered from a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection.

However, there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19

It takes far more than one study with lots of limitations to conclude that 83% of Americans have been either infected or vaccinated. Did you read the study?

This was done on a select population - blood donors in metropolitan regions who differ from the general population in measurable demographic variables. "significantly more blood donors in the study were non-Hispanic White (85.0% vs 61.2%) and aged 50 to 64 years (36.5% vs 24.4%); significantly fewer donors were aged 16 to 29 years (12.1% vs 24.1%), Hispanic (6.2% vs 17.1%), non-Hispanic Asian (2.9% vs 6.2%), or non-Hispanic Black (2.5% vs 12.7%) "

Also, "donations from donors with a known vaccine history, 73.3% were from donors who self-reported receiving a previous COVID-19 vaccine, compared with CDC estimates that 57.0% of US adults aged 18 years and older had received 1 dose or more of vaccine by May 2021.  Blood donors are more likely than the general US population to be employed and have attended college, factors potentially associated with increased rates of vaccination and lower rates of infection."

The authors of the study point out a number of other factors that may have impacted their findings. One of these is that estimates were not adjusted to account for potential waning of sensitivity after six months. 

 

Herd immunity is very complex and depends on many factors, including how contagious the infection may be.  At this point, I doubt that Americans will ever achieve herd immunity for this illness. We had a shot at it early on before it proliferated widely and if we were doing contact tracing for small breakouts to contain these.  I remember when some people on this forum were believing that no restrictions, protections, or vaccinations were needed, and estimates were presented that as low as a 20% infection rate was sufficient for herd immunity. 

What is known at this point is that the Delta variant is far more contagious and more likely to cause serious illness. We know that those who have been vaccinated are far less likely to have symptoms, need hospitalization, or die. While vaccinated people can spread it even without symptoms, it seems that they carry the viral load in their nasal passages for a shorter duration, making them less infectious to others.

Reasonable conclusions from this -- that vaccination helps a lot but that it is still necessary to use other protective measures to limit contagion. Good masks worn properly offer protection as well as avoiding crowds and indoor spaces, especially when there is insufficient ventilation.

This virus is a moving target. There has been a remarkable amount of data collected in a very short period of time. We've developed what is probably the most effective vaccines ever with amazing speed. The immune system and virology are very complex with much more yet to be understood. The more time we have, the more lives can be saved by more data about the most effective vaccines and the rate of waning immunity as well as advances in therapeutic treatments for those infected. Instead of posting "gotcha" posts that induce distrust of science  or amplify quackery, we would be better served by posts pointing to logical conclusions that help protect us best at this moment which can change as the virus mutates and as we learn more.

 


Edited by claire, 05 September 2021 - 07:06 PM.


#23 claire

claire

    Member

  • Traders-Talk User
  • 528 posts

Posted 05 September 2021 - 07:09 PM

 

 

?You need to dispense with this attitude.
 The vaccinated are spreading covid like nobody's business. And they're getting sick. Your snark is offensive and unscientific. We've got an an effing problem going on right now.

 

Not an attitude.  Just believe we need a voice with the truth (or at least some portion of the truth) as a counter to misinforming posts, this tread and others, of what is really going on.  As an old sage once said >> Ignorance is Bliss.

 

I agree - not an attitude - and am grateful that you chose to state your point of view.



#24 da_cheif

da_cheif

    Member

  • Traders-Talk User
  • 10,504 posts

Posted 05 September 2021 - 07:34 PM

 

 

?You need to dispense with this attitude.
 The vaccinated are spreading covid like nobody's business. And they're getting sick. Your snark is offensive and unscientific. We've got an an effing problem going on right now.

 

Not an attitude.  Just believe we need a voice with the truth (or at least some portion of the truth) as a counter to misinforming posts, this tread and others, of what is really going on.  As an old sage once said >> Ignorance is Bliss....c

 

so u must be blissful...:>) BTW most here have cfs    so be carefull


Edited by da_cheif, 05 September 2021 - 07:39 PM.


#25 da_cheif

da_cheif

    Member

  • Traders-Talk User
  • 10,504 posts

Posted 05 September 2021 - 07:37 PM

i hate long weekends


Edited by da_cheif, 05 September 2021 - 07:41 PM.


#26 pdx5

pdx5

    I want return OF my money more than return ON my money

  • Traders-Talk User
  • 8,008 posts

Posted 05 September 2021 - 09:32 PM

claire, your post is worth reading. And I agree we won't achieve herd immunity for covid-19, any more than we have for the common flu. why do we need to take flu shots every year? Because influenza mutates. Ditto with covid-19. It is going to mutate constantly. That is what corona viruses do. The Mu variant of covid-19 is on the way already LOL.

 

My MAIN point is, no vaccine ever stopped infections. Because no vaccine ever built a air-tight glass shield around the body.If you are breathing, you will inhale the virus. And it will lodge itself in respiratory tract and lungs. And it won't ask if the body is vaccinated or not. It will just enter regardless. And it will replicate and consume body tissue for growing itself. Only at that point the body becomes aware of the virus invasion. And the immunity defenses start to go to work.

 

If you are vaccinated, you are likely to have extra stocks of anti-bodies and may subdue the virus before symptoms show up. That is confused by many as vaccine prevented infection. It certainly did not. The infection has to happen first before anti-bodies created by vaccine and white corpuscles are ordered to go and kill the invader.


Edited by pdx5, 05 September 2021 - 09:35 PM.

"Money cannot consistently be made trading every day or every week during the year." ~ Jesse Livermore Trading Rule

#27 LMF

LMF

    Member

  • Traders-Talk User
  • 740 posts

Posted 06 September 2021 - 12:00 AM

Truth and the entire COVId saga dont have a lot of overlap. The vaccine cannot possibly be called by thAt name when we are seeing no evidence that it actually prevents the virus from continuing on its way. Its nothing more than a simple medical procedure requiring informed consent just like we all see when visiting the dentists office. Booster shots on a vaccine? It just looks like a duck, quacks and everything else like a duck. Follow the money and then you will see answers. But truth is the most unlikely thing coming out of DC. The agenda is what comes out of DC without fail.

#28 andr99

andr99

    Member

  • Traders-Talk User
  • 5,860 posts

Posted 06 September 2021 - 05:08 AM

well, as some specialists said on tv a few years ago, in times when covid was not at the horizon, pandemics surge when a very new virus, which our immune system is unable to recognize because it has never been in contact with anything similar, arises and spreads worldwide. Usually in two or three years these pandemics disappear exactly because the human population takes that time to adapt its immune defenses and usually the virus in that time becomes a ''normal virus'' with no lethal consequences. The question is, do we want to spend two years or three letting it run worldwide causing millions of deaths or do we want to teach our immune system how to recognize it and defeat it before it can cause a wordwide dysaster ?

Well, vaccines are meant to do exactly that i.e. teaching our immune system how to defeat the virus. So the real question should not be if vaccinating is useless because this is a normal virus, because it isn' t, but if the vaccines that have been built are effective or not. I think they are as lately here in this corner of europe where I live, all the people who get to the hospital are ''not vaccinated''. If a new variant which the vaccine is unable to block, comes out....well we will get a third dose of vaccine. All we need is to let two or three years pass with the least possible damage, because then the pandemics disappears. 

 

My two very little cents, because I don' t want to get in into this discussion, which I' m not as passionate of as most people here, seem to be. I got vaccinated.....and if a couple of horns grow on my head, well better horned than in intensive care unit.....


forever and only a V-E-N-E-T-K-E-N - langbard


#29 Rogerdodger

Rogerdodger

    Member

  • TT Member*
  • 25,414 posts

Posted 06 September 2021 - 10:23 AM

A lot of people that I know have changed their opinions after suffering with Covid.



#30 claire

claire

    Member

  • Traders-Talk User
  • 528 posts

Posted 06 September 2021 - 01:22 PM

A lot of people that I know have changed their opinions after suffering with Covid.

 

 

Even more will have regrets years later when it may be much too late. This virus is more insidious than most in that it has the capacity to damage any organ or organ-system in the body with potential unforeseen long-term consequences for a significant percentage of young, healthy, fit people. It will take a long time to assess the effects of such damage which can mean people having kidney damage, lung damage, brain damage, impaired cognition, the onset of Type II diabetes and virtually any other illness in years following infection that would not have occurred or would have taken many more years to occur if they weren't infected. They may have recovered well and feel fine now, but the quality of their lives and even their longevity may be impacted by subtle damage that produces no symptoms after recovery and can't easily be detected by current tests or lab work.

It will take a very long time to determine how serious this may be. At the moment, it seems that approximately 10%-30% of people infected have long-covid - or symptoms that persist for many months, some for over a year with no end in sight. Most of these people appear to have a very slow recovery but often with relapses. This is all terra-incognita that will require many years for better answers. 

Vaccination doesn't cause the illness. It lasts a short time in the body and does the job of triggering immunity which limits the impact of infection dramatically for those who are not immunocompromised, offering protection from systemic damage for an overwhelming majority of those vaccinated.

It's very easy to scare people and spread rumors that can have disastrous consequences. Somebody hears from someone that someone died after the vaccination - or whatever the rumor, whether true or not, they are frightened and avoid vaccination with no comprehension that this one case was one out of a million or many millions who were vaccinated, probably comparable to someone getting killed by crossing a street. Should they avoid crossing streets? But the chance of their dying from Covid is far greater and they are likely to spread it to others and be responsible for more illness and deaths while simultaneously giving the infection more opportunities to mutate.

 

Nothing is perfect - no medication or treatment for anything. There are always outliers or people with idiosyncratic reactions. All we can do is to go with the weight of the evidence which will work very well for the majority. It won't always work and the advice may change with new data. If I have a disease or illness, my best bet is to follow the advice of a knowledgeable doctor who is aware of established current understanding about this illness. At the moment, that means vaccinations and observing precautions to protect yourself and others from this infection.