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#41 andr99

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 01:41 AM

"Anyway, people should ask their doctor what could happen to the vaccinated, if covid19 mutates outside the spike protein."

 

It is not about where it mutates, because mutations are distributed randomly.

It is about which mutations are selected. Selection is for those mutations that provide fittness advantage to the virus, in other worlds because it replicates faster after acquiring the mutation.

Evidently, it is the spike protein mutations that benefit this virus the most.

No evidence from the existing variants that anything else matters, because hasn't been selected.

Hope this helps to understand what has been going on with mutations and variants. 

 

what happens if the virus mutates outside the spike protein ? 

 

the answer is ''who cares ?'' 

 

the spike protein is the key that covid uses to enter the cells and it is the target of all the vaccines that have been built. It's not what changes outside the spike protein than matters, but what changes on the spike protein because it could make the vaccines less effective. The delta variant has made exactly that....it has changed a very little bit of something on the spike protein simply because it has found the shield of our immune defenses, built thanks to the vaccines, and has mutated to defeat it. But as it seems vaccinated people continue to be protected in the vast majority of cases and the few that get infected by the delta variant don' t go to intensive care units which is the most important thing.

 

I didn' t want to partecipate in this argument, but some precisations might help........

 

And maybe we should add for more information that the spike protein is the anchor that the virus uses to link itself to the human cell receptors and enter the cells........that's why the vaccines are built to teach our immune system to recognize everything which  carries that ''anchor'' and destroy it 


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#42 12SPX

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:17 AM

Where's kwave in all this discussion he's got some great information and I'd like to hear more about natural immunity!!



#43 andr99

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:46 AM

Where's kwave in all this discussion he's got some great information and I'd like to hear more about natural immunity!!

 

Hi spx, how are you doing ? Are you watching the US open ? I am, at night. Full of surprises both in the men's draw and in the women's one. Without Federer and Nadal though it has lost some ''weight''. Not like me as I' ve taken some weight given that my usual opponent is in Russia for a holiday. With other opponents I don' t run and get weight    


Edited by andr99, 07 September 2021 - 08:48 AM.

forever and only a V-E-N-E-T-K-E-N - langbard


#44 K Wave

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 08:59 AM

Where's kwave in all this discussion he's got some great information and I'd like to hear more about natural immunity!!

 

Again, the Achilles Heel of the Gene Shots is their specificity, and when that specificity is fully overcome, likely fairly soon, things are likely to get quite dicey for the Gene Shot recipients.

Natural Immunity is far more robust, and will be able to handle changes to Spike much better.

 

We may very well find that out out in a couple of months....

Thus far, things following a pretty much predictable path.

 

Gene Shot...just 2 and Done...you can get back to your normal life.

Uh oh, looks like getting infected with SARS quite possible, but still protects from serious disease.

Uh, not only can you get infected, but you effectively become a super spreader while perhaps not even realizing you are infected. Still protects again serious disease though.

Uh oh, looks like you can indeed get disease serious enough to be Hospitalized or even Die. (Israel, UK...just beginning in USA)

And last, yet to be seen...uh oh, not only can you get sick and die, but the shots make the disease worse than if you were unvaxxxed.

 

Hopefully it will not lead to that last cliff edge in the darkness....but looks like that is the path humanity is currently on....

If the boosters soon become ineffective, that will likely be when the S begins to hit the fan....

 

And again, the complete insanity of doing this without knowing is mind boggling....

 

https://www.express....ain-coronavirus

 

However, the situation appears much murkier six months on from being jabbed, with the study claiming protection against the virus effectively "vanishes".


Edited by K Wave, 07 September 2021 - 09:00 AM.


#45 slupert

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 09:30 AM

Looking at my LT holds (SQ,BA) on a day like this is disheartening enough guys lighten up.



#46 slupert

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 09:59 AM

Conspiracy theories everywhere in this world today, how probable are they really?

The Prisoner's Dilemma - YouTube



#47 andr99

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 12:23 PM

...and how many probabilities are there that covid has natural origin outside the wuhan lab ? Here is a suggestion.......NONE

 

 

and it is laughable that those that should have investigated for the WHO repeatedly have said......it's natural........without ever carrying a piece of proof supporting that. 

 

Have you ever seen the investigators choose an option before starting to investigate ? Such investigators wouldn' t even see the sun setting up in a Summer clear sky.


Edited by andr99, 07 September 2021 - 12:32 PM.

forever and only a V-E-N-E-T-K-E-N - langbard


#48 OEXCHAOS

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 03:11 PM

So, there's a growing body of evidence that both the MMR and the Tetanus shots are meaningfully protective (and, of course, safe). This might be a reasonable pivot for those who are vaccinated and concerned. Or maybe the vaccine hesitant.

https://www.msn.com/...tion/ar-AANY6qN


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#49 fib_1618

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Posted 07 September 2021 - 11:03 PM

So, there's a growing body of evidence that both the MMR and the Tetanus shots are meaningfully protective (and, of course, safe). This might be a reasonable pivot for those who are vaccinated and concerned. Or maybe the vaccine hesitant.

https://www.msn.com/...tion/ar-AANY6qN


You can also include the basic flu shot, and if you’re 65 or older, the duo pneumonia shots which also protect you bacterially.

 

And for those who are still on the fence, a daily dose of good old vitamin D and zinc would do just as well.

 

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#50 claire

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Posted 08 September 2021 - 12:05 AM

 

Where's kwave in all this discussion he's got some great information and I'd like to hear more about natural immunity!!

 

Again, the Achilles Heel of the Gene Shots is their specificity, and when that specificity is fully overcome, likely fairly soon, things are likely to get quite dicey for the Gene Shot recipients.

Natural Immunity is far more robust, and will be able to handle changes to Spike much better.

 

We may very well find that out out in a couple of months....

Thus far, things following a pretty much predictable path.

 

Gene Shot...just 2 and Done...you can get back to your normal life.

Uh oh, looks like getting infected with SARS quite possible, but still protects from serious disease.

Uh, not only can you get infected, but you effectively become a super spreader while perhaps not even realizing you are infected. Still protects again serious disease though.

Uh oh, looks like you can indeed get disease serious enough to be Hospitalized or even Die. (Israel, UK...just beginning in USA)

And last, yet to be seen...uh oh, not only can you get sick and die, but the shots make the disease worse than if you were unvaxxxed.

 

Hopefully it will not lead to that last cliff edge in the darkness....but looks like that is the path humanity is currently on....

If the boosters soon become ineffective, that will likely be when the S begins to hit the fan....

 

And again, the complete insanity of doing this without knowing is mind boggling....

 

https://www.express....ain-coronavirus

 

However, the situation appears much murkier six months on from being jabbed, with the study claiming protection against the virus effectively "vanishes".

There's a lot you don't understand about immunity. Antibody levels achieved by natural infection AND those triggered by vaccines decline soon after they occur.  Antibodies are high when actively fighting an infection or after vaccination. The antibodies decline significantly with time but they don't need to be present at high levels continually. These are the foot-soldiers of the immune system. How long they last varies in different people with increased age as a major determining factor and may be protective for months or years, but dwindling in numbers which allow possible reinfection.

 

Circulating antibodies trigger the production of memory cells to provide long-term protection. For some that work for other diseases, they may last a lifetime. They are stored and generally last far longer than the circulating antibodies for COVID. They don't necessarily block reinfection but reduce the severity. The body mounts a rapid and effective response on re-exposure when the memory cells quickly trigger the production of a new round of circulating antibodies to fight the infection.

 

What's fascinating is that the memory cells undergo numerous mutations well after an infection resolved or the vaccine was administered. This leads to the production of antibodies that are much more effective than the originals in attacking the virus and variants. This occurs BOTH for vaccines and natural infection. These memory cells may last for decades (unlike circulating antibodies). This can help explain how other vaccines or powerful infections that boost the immune system may produce some evolved memory cells with a small affinity for COVID and offer some protection.

Current research may indicate that the memory cells of natural infection may continue to evolve for longer than those triggered by vaccination. If confirmed, further research into the reasons will tease out whether it's due to a natural infection which persists in the body for weeks, giving more time for a continual stimulation of memory cells (while the vaccine is flushed out of the body in days) or that it is injected into muscle rather than inhaled into the lungs in typical infections or other reasons. More research can help determine when and how often to offer boosters. What remains clear is that natural infection and the addition of vaccinations offer very potent protection and that the danger of infection without protection leads to much more serious diseases and deaths. 

 

 

 

 


Edited by claire, 08 September 2021 - 12:07 AM.