105 replies to this topic

[Rich C]

 

 Does all that CO2 which goes into the atmosphere have an effect, or no?

The Earth has had far more CO2 than 1000 ppm even and it supported animal life just fine.

 

Your statement is true, and totally irrelevant.  In that era of higher CO2, the earth's temp was much higher, and while some animal life was supported, they lived in the sea where they were saved from the baking heat.  Animals left the sea onto the land as the earth cooled.

 

But the question you fail to deal with is not whether the earth can support some animal life at higher temps.  The question is, can earth support MAN and his activities that we have developed in order to innovate and progress as a society at 1000 ppm of CO2 today?  That is the question.

 

Climate scientists are telling us the answer is NO.  Our way of life will have to change, in inconvenient ways.

 

"July 13, 2023 -Record-breaking heat and pockets of drought are baking farmland across the country, threatening crop yields and squeezing out any remaining wiggle room to cope with more extreme weather this summer.

 

Throughout the Sun Belt, an extended heat wave is sending temperatures soaring into the triple digits and risking heat stress to crops. At the same time, breadbasket states in the Midwest are struggling to manage a drought that’s affecting some areas for a second year in a row. Nearly two-thirds of Kansas is in severe, extreme or exceptional drought, according to the U.S. Drought Monitor, and about half of Missouri and Nebraska are in the same rough shape.

 

“As long as we have irrigation, we can keep up,” said Jay Reiners, who runs a farm outside Hastings, Nebraska. But “irrigation is meant to supplement Mother Nature, not replace Mother Nature,” he said. “It makes me really nervous.”

 

https://www.nbcnews....-july-rcna93862

 

Our food supply is coming under stress from the heat.  Whatever the temp was 500 million years ago has no bearing on what is happening today, unless you can explain that coherently.

Edited by Rich C, 29 July 2023 - 09:11 AM.

[hhh]

Rich C is right........

 

 

3) De-forestation is underway in the last green areas of the world, thus decreasing the CO2 process of transformation of it into the air we breathe

 

So putting together those three points it seems logical that the climate might be affected by the increased CO2 emissions on the Earth.

No, the Earth is greening over the last several decades which is actually cooling it. The Earth's CO2 level is a self balancing system that man has no control or impact on. It's all hysterical bull$hit to make you want to "own nothing and be happy." Stop being a victim, and denounce these charlatans at every turn.

[hhh]

Regarding "record heat waves": it's not true. It was hotter in the 1930s, and as I wrote before, the Earth does not owe us a comfortable climate. It will do what it's going to do, and we can only adapt. Our CO2 production is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It's the water vapour, an one volcanic event swamps hundreds of years of man's influence. We're not gettting to 1000 ppm CO2 any time soon, I just used that as an arbitrary figure since we are near historic lows now around 400 ppm. It's quite obvious when governments will only fund those that toe the government line and refuse funding to anybody that publishes studies countering it. It's all a scam to "level the playing field" and make us a third world country so that we can be more easily controlled and owned.

 

Stop Stockholm syndrome before they kill us all over a phantom menace. 

[Rich C]

 

 

Water vapour absolutely swamps the effect of CO2

 

We need more CO2 for the few trees that are left left!

Johnson CO2 Generator $1,608.69

 

 

 

From NASA:

 

"Water vapor is Earth’s most abundant greenhouse gas. It’s responsible for about half of Earth’s greenhouse effect — the process that occurs when gases in Earth’s atmosphere trap the Sun’s heat. Greenhouse gases keep our planet livable. Without them, Earth’s surface temperature would be about 59 degrees Fahrenheit (33 degrees Celsius) colder. Water vapor is also a key part of Earth’s water cycle: the path that all water follows as it moves around Earth’s atmosphere, land, and ocean as liquid water, solid ice, and gaseous water vapor.

 

Since the late 1800s, global average surface temperatures have increased by about 2 degrees Fahrenheit (1.1 degrees Celsius). Data from satellites, weather balloons, and ground measurements confirm the amount of atmospheric water vapor is increasing as the climate warms. (The United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change Sixth Assessment Report states total atmospheric water vapor is increasing 1 to 2% per decade.) For every degree Celsius that Earth’s atmospheric temperature rises, the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere can increase by about 7%, according to the laws of thermodynamics.

 

Some people mistakenly believe water vapor is the main driver of Earth’s current warming. But increased water vapor doesn’t cause global warming. Instead, it’s a consequence of it. Increased water vapor in the atmosphere amplifies the warming caused by other greenhouse gases.

 

It works like this: As greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide and methane increase, Earth’s temperature rises in response. This increases evaporation from both water and land areas. Because warmer air holds more moisture, its concentration of water vapor increases. Specifically, this happens because water vapor does not condense and precipitate out of the atmosphere as easily at higher temperatures. The water vapor then absorbs heat radiated from Earth and prevents it from escaping out to space. This further warms the atmosphere, resulting in even more water vapor in the atmosphere. This is what scientists call a "positive feedback loop." Scientists estimate this effect more than doubles the warming that would happen due to increasing carbon dioxide alone."

 

https://climate.nasa...enhouse-effect/

 

 

 

So, yes, water vapor plays a role in climate change, but the role it plays is because it is more prevalent in the atmosphere because of the warming caused by the increase of CO2 and methane, caused by man burning fossil fuels.

 

The increase water vapor is what is causing more and more intense rainfall events, resulting in flooding we have not seen before at the current rate.

 

https://www.reuters....ted-2023-07-12/

 

https://www.theguard...ss-europe-video

 

https://floodlist.com/america/usa/floods-vermont-july-2023 

Disaster Declared After “Historic and Catastrophic Flooding” in Vermont

Edited by Rich C, 29 July 2023 - 09:36 AM.

[Rogerdodger]

flooding we have not seen before

 

Really?  Read some recent (1862) history

 

1862 Climate Change:

 

Real History and Real Science before it sold out:

The floods of 1861–1862, and droughts of 1863–1864
The Great Flood of 1862 was the largest flood in the recorded history of Oregon, Nevada, and California, occurring from December 1861 to January 1862. It was preceded by weeks of continuous rains and snows in the very high elevations that began in Oregon in November 1861 and continued into January 1862. This was followed by a record amount of rain from January 9–12, and contributed to a flood that extended from the Columbia River southward in western Oregon, and through California to San Diego, and extended as far inland as Idaho in the Washington Territory, Nevada and Utah in the Utah Territory, and Arizona in the western New Mexico Territory. The event dumped an equivalent of 10 feet of rainfall in California, in the form of rain and snow, over a period of 43 days.[1][2] Immense snowfalls in the mountains of the far western United States caused more flooding in Idaho, Arizona, New Mexico, and Sonora, Mexico the following spring and summer as the snow melted.
The event was capped by a warm intense storm that melted the high snow load. The resulting snow-melt flooded valleys, inundated or swept away towns, mills, dams, flumes, houses, fences, and domestic animals, and ruined fields. It has been described as the worst disaster ever to strike California.
The weather pattern that caused this flood was not from an El Niño type event, and from the existing Army and private weather records, it has been determined that the polar jet stream was to the north as the Pacific Northwest experienced a mild rainy pattern for the first half of December 1861. In 2012, hydrologists and meteorologists concluded that the precipitation was likely caused by a series of atmospheric rivers that hit the Western United States along the entire West Coast, from Oregon to Southern California

 

(Kinda like the recent, less severe atmospheric rivers)
https://en.wikipedia...t_Flood_of_1862
https://en.wikipedia...s_of_California

 

Then the Droughts

"The end of the happy, carefree days of life on the California ranchos was the unusually dry weather that brought droughts to southern California in the 1860s and 1870s."

 

FOLLOWED BY THE DEADLIEST HURRICANE IN HISTORY

Sept 8, 1900 Galveston Texas: 12,000 die in catastrophic flooding

 

So how old are "we" and for how many millenniums has the earth seen rain and floods, and heat and droughts?

 

WHERE THEIR ANY GASOLINE STATIONS OR HIGHWAYS THEN?

Edited by Rogerdodger, 29 July 2023 - 11:01 AM.

[Rich C]

 

flooding we have not seen before

 

Really?  Read some recent (1862) history

 

1862 Climate Change:

 

Real History and Real Science before it sold out:

The floods of 1861–1862, and droughts of 1863–1864
The Great Flood of 1862 was the largest flood in the recorded history of Oregon, Nevada, and California, occurring from December 1861 to January 1862. It was preceded by weeks of continuous rains and snows in the very high elevations that began in Oregon in November 1861 and continued into January 1862. This was followed by a record amount of rain from January 9–12, and contributed to a flood that extended from the Columbia River southward in western Oregon, and through California to San Diego, and extended as far inland as Idaho in the Washington Territory, Nevada and Utah in the Utah Territory, and Arizona in the western New Mexico Territory. The event dumped an equivalent of 10 feet of rainfall in California, in the form of rain and snow, over a period of 43 days.[1][2] Immense snowfalls in the mountains of the far western United States caused more flooding in Idaho, Arizona, New Mexico, and Sonora, Mexico the following spring and summer as the snow melted.
The event was capped by a warm intense storm that melted the high snow load. The resulting snow-melt flooded valleys, inundated or swept away towns, mills, dams, flumes, houses, fences, and domestic animals, and ruined fields. It has been described as the worst disaster ever to strike California.
The weather pattern that caused this flood was not from an El Niño type event, and from the existing Army and private weather records, it has been determined that the polar jet stream was to the north as the Pacific Northwest experienced a mild rainy pattern for the first half of December 1861. In 2012, hydrologists and meteorologists concluded that the precipitation was likely caused by a series of atmospheric rivers that hit the Western United States along the entire West Coast, from Oregon to Southern California
https://en.wikipedia...t_Flood_of_1862
https://en.wikipedia...s_of_California

The end of the happy, carefree days of life on the California ranchos was the unusually dry weather that brought droughts to southern California in the 1860s and 1870s.

 

Sept 8, 1900 Galveston Texas: 12,000 die in catastrophic flooding

 

So how old are "we" and for how many millenniums has the earth seen rain and floods, and heat and droughts?

 

It is not that there have not been big floods before in history, of course there have.  Now it is different.  There are historic floods occurring all over the world, China, Europe, the USA, all in the same year, NOW.  The global simultaneous nature of the flooding is different, predicted by the climate change models that are based on increasing levels of CO2 and methane in the atmosphere, and nature is behaving as the models predicted.

 

Climate change is NOT ONE EVENT in one place, so showing one unusual event does not disprove climate change.  It is a long term trend change that occurs all over the world.

 

https://www.pbs.org/...o-higher-ground

Edited by Rich C, 29 July 2023 - 11:02 AM.

[hhh]

To even discuss "climate change" in the context of a human lifespan is ludicrous. What we are seeing is weather variability. Climate change happens over thousands of years and has been happening for millions of years. Get used to it, we can't do a thing about it.

[Rich C]

To even discuss "climate change" in the context of a human lifespan is ludicrous. What we are seeing is weather variability. Climate change happens over thousands of years and has been happening for millions of years. Get used to it, we can't do a thing about it.

To fail to discuss climate change that is occurring at so rapid a pace that it is observed within our lifetimes, as to disrupt our way of life, our food security globally, is pathetically inadequate, especially if WE are the primary cause.  If we are the primary cause, which is what most climate scientists tell us, then there is something we can do about it.  The failure to act in light of these facts is absurd behavior.

[hhh]

Most "climate scientists" are government funded and propagandize for the government position (or they lose that funding) which in turn, is the WEF agenda. It's all a hoax.

[andr99]

 

To even discuss "climate change" in the context of a human lifespan is ludicrous. What we are seeing is weather variability. Climate change happens over thousands of years and has been happening for millions of years. Get used to it, we can't do a thing about it.

To fail to discuss climate change that is occurring at so rapid a pace that it is observed within our lifetimes, as to disrupt our way of life, our food security globally, is pathetically inadequate, especially if WE are the primary cause.  If we are the primary cause, which is what most climate scientists tell us, then there is something we can do about it.  The failure to act in light of these facts is absurd behavior.

 

 

to me you are perfectly right..............

 

(however our delicious italian leftists should find someone who explain them what 0.8% of global emissions means) 

Edited by andr99, 29 July 2023 - 12:33 PM.